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nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Recently there has been quite the scandal in Singapore, and I know atheists will love this one. I can't provide links on my phone, but Googling "City Harvest Church" should suffice. In a nutshell, one of our mega churches has been caught in a money scandal. Six of their top clergymen, including the pastor, have been nabbed for channeling up to 50 million dollars worth of donations into various personal uses, such as up to 23 million launching the pop music career of the pastor, with the flimsy excuse of spreading the gospel through her music.

Honestly, her music is worse than a bagpipe orchestra, and has all the sensibilities of a tap dancing oyster.

But the more serious matter at hand; are Churches today starting to deviate from what their supposedly "divine" mission truly is, and instead becoming money earning businesses? Do Churches need so much money? Should they be properly audited? The usual.

Go on, have a field day.

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Salvidian
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Salvidian
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The Roman Catholic church hit an all time low right before the Anglican and Lutheran churches began. During the 1500's many Catholic clergy men did whatever they wanted; stole, killed, assaulted, etc. and were let off because they were of higher power, being involved with the church and all. They used their "holiness" as an excuse to get what they wanted.

Of course, Martin Luther posted his 90-something complaints attacking the Catholics, and many followed him to start anew. They began the Lutheran church, which was to be looked at as a church that was new and improved. Henry, whatever, king of England wanted an annulment for his marriage to Queen Liz, but was denied by the pope. He started the Anglican church, of which he was pope and all royalty were to be regarded as holy.

The Catholics counter-revolutionized and started a new clean slate, vowing to never to return to their sinful ways. To be honest, i think they vowed to start anew because many countries were considering Lutheranism as their official faith.

It was a lot worse before.

sensanaty
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sensanaty
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I'm not even surprised by these kind of things anymore.

Honestly, her music is worse than a bagpipe orchestra...


Am I the only one that likes bagpipes? ._.

Anywho, I thinks it's always been the same, as Salvidian said, as it was in the 16th century. Only less rebellions and popes saying it's okay to kill if you give them money.

Do churches need that kind of money? Well, if you're going to actually spend it on restoration of certain things in the churches, exemple gratia the picture-things on the ceilings(I forget the name), then yes, of course.

Oh, und here's the article
BRAAINZz
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BRAAINZz
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Go on, have a field day.


This will be a funny thread to watch.

I don't think that the churches need really any money. I'm not sure if the people who run it get paid, but if they do, they should just put the money to that, and that only. Because in all the time I have been able to see churches and realize what they were, I thought they were a bit too well off. I don't see why they would need it for anything.

They are so well off that they can just move 50 Million $ to their own personal gain! This is actually outrageous! Just looking at the building, it seems like they get way too much from the public and that this money could be put to some better use.

Maybe like to the forward of Science, and not the faction that represses it.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Just look at all those magnificent cathedrals that were built centuries ago... in that time the sums of money and ressources invested in them were phenomenal. Bigger clergies were soaked by the reputation of being well-off, for a reason.

I think to a certain point it is better today, at least in the church community around here, they send out the annual bulletins with a list to where the funds go, they go of course to the maintenance of the infrastructure and salaries, but also to charity organisations etc. I remember they even say at the end of each cult what the donation will be used for.

But this is only one example. Of course those mega churches in America are money earning businesses because they need the money to make their stadions shows and all that nonsense. And the city harvest church is but one more example. Churches should not be supposed to butter such amounts of money in such silly projects. If anything, they should build cathedrals XD

loloynage2
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loloynage2
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Pastors and church bosses where mostly always richer then the common men for some reason. Well that's because a lot of the church money goes in the pockets of the pastors. I don't think this is new or uncommon. Just recently a pastor close to my community used 150 000$ (ish) of the church money for gambling. But as Salvidian said, it was a lot worse back in the days.

partydevil
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partydevil
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this makes me thing about cartmans christian-rock band. xD

more on topic. yea they have to much money they always had.
and they have used it for the worst things you can think of.
however mnay churches also give alot to charities. but you will never ear about that. that isn't what people want to see on the "news"

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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In defense of historical churches, many of them were endowed by great secular lords with their own money. What I have qualms about is the emergence of mega churches who grow obscenely rich on the tithes of the people.

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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There are bad men every where

SSTG
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SSTG
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What I have qualms about is the emergence of mega churches who grow obscenely rich on the tithes of the people.

There are many of those in the US. I think most of them are greed motivated and Jesus is spelled Je$u$. Believers are easy targets for those scammers.
Krill11
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Krill11
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Well, The catholic church has had a lot of scandals, including an overpowering Latin family put a pirate as the pope. And then there is the fish day, where the pope privately owned the fish market, but they didn't make as much money as he wanted so he created a gigantic fast that said that you could eat nothing but fish that day of the year.

I am not atheist by any means, and just because that people are stupid, it does not mean that there isn't a god...

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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This thread was not meant for discussing the validity of Gods existence but the issue of the Church and it's wealth. So please don't conflate them.

Tactical_Fish
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an overpowering Latin family put a pirate as the pope. And then there is the fish day, where the pope privately owned the fish market, but they didn't make as much money as he wanted so he created a gigantic fast that said that you could eat nothing but fish that day of the year.


What are you talking about? Do you mean Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?
Krill11
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Krill11
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Just wanted to clear it up, Nicho. From the way you posted it seemed that that was the direction was going...

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