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Communism

Posted Jul 21, '12 at 12:00am

TheMostManlyMan

TheMostManlyMan

4,648 posts

in mother russia, you are not communist, communist is you

~man manly

 

Posted Jul 21, '12 at 12:10am

Salvidian

Salvidian

4,299 posts

Yes, I know Communism can never be implemented into real life.
Well the idea of communism, as stated above, is impossible.
With this idea, communism or rather, true communism, is impossible.


True communism is impossible, but the communism we have today is an extended version of socialism. It's very achievable through use of propaganda, oppression, and severe consequences for wrongdoing.

If the people truly governed the country, then it would be anarchy, because you need people in higher power to position the country on a pathway.
It does seem, in a sense, that communism is like anarchy. There is no government or laws.
You need some kind of law and order in order to govern the people.


Communism is not of the people governing themselves. It is the exact opposite. In a communist country, the people have a government that regulates them. You don't generally vote for your leaders; if you do, propaganda usually determines the winner. The government takes money from the rich and gives it to the poor through taxes, or "robin hooding." People live about the same lives. Most everything is run by the government. If not, then most things are at least overseen by the government.

Capitalism is completely gone from a communist country; there are no individual companies, no choice in what you want to buy, and you certainty have no choice in where you want to work.

So, done with my argument.

Communism was influenced by the ideals of Karl Marx, with the predecessor being philosopher Thomas Hobbes. Thomas Hobbes believed that people were born naturally evil, and needed one hell of a government to hold them back. He believed in a monarchical government, as was customary of his time. The ideas of communism were reflected by monarchies in many cases, whether it be the king/queen/whatever using propaganda to make people loyal, forcing people to become weak to protect from revolution, or sometimes forcing the people to follow the ways of royalty.

Hitler's Germany used propaganda to show that Germany was coming back strong and to influence the Germanic people that they were the superior race. Germany was defeated in WWI, so Hitler used this as a perfect opportunity to rebuild the country in his wanting. Germany wasn't necessarily a communistic country, but it was close to one. The people had to believe in what Hitler believed in, and any opposition were to be dealt away with immediately. It was fascist and all that jazz, but that doesn't matter with the topic at hand.

The Soviet Union was also close to a communistic government. Stalin was a lot like Hitler and killed any opposition, forced propaganda upon his people, and forced them to live the way he wanted them to.

Italy was like these two at one time as well, but I have to find my history notes to go into depth with that.
 

Posted Jul 21, '12 at 7:52pm

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,534 posts

only people who have never read any capitalist literature enjoy the fantasy of communism. many of those haven't even read Capital by Marx and the other bits by Engels or the Communist Manifesto, for that matter.

 

Posted Jul 22, '12 at 3:05am

devsaupa

devsaupa

1,849 posts

Stalin was a lot like Hitler


Wrong. Stalin killed his own political party members, millions more Russians that the Nazis ever did, and to date no one still knows how many Russians and Eastern Europeans died while under his regime. Hitler, while also killing millions, mainly Jews, boosted Germany to a higher standard of living and made it the best economy in the 30's and 40's. Stalin never really got Russia to the dream he claimed to have. Stalin seemed more like a lunatic at the right place and right time. Hitler, while also insane, used it to achieve his ends and was really for the German people. Stalin just liked power, no matter who it is over and no matter who he had to crush.

killed any opposition


Stalin usually didn't kill opposition. He killed Russians that he was suspicious of, he needed for labor, and communist party members he became paranoid of. There is reason to believe he suffered from acute paranoia and schizophrenia. Adolf also began to show signs of memory loss and minor schizophrenia at the end of WWII. Also, the Nazi party was much more loyal to it's own than the USSR communist party was.

forced propaganda upon his people


Everyone does that. Everyone! It just depends on what you think is propaganda and what is a.......TV ad.

Italy was like these two at one time as well,


Never, ever. Mussolini was more like a sidekick who did whatever Hitler told him to do. Transport out the Jews, defend this front, attack here. His regime, if you can call it that, never came close to what Hitler or Stalin had, or Lenin for that matter.

Communism was influenced by the ideals of Karl Marx,


Karl Marx influenced Marxism. Communism is not exactly taken from his ideals. Basically it was shifted to fit what leaders wanted. Like China was running on a Maoism government for a time. Similar but not the same.

but it was close to one


Nazism and Communism are not close. Hitler and Stalin loathed each other and what they stood for. Again, similarities, but it's not accurate to call them close.
 

Posted Jul 22, '12 at 10:17am

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,534 posts

National German Socialist Party. Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

 

Posted Jul 22, '12 at 10:19am

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,534 posts

Let me correct the name of the party before any else does, National Socialist German Workers' Party.

 

Posted Jul 22, '12 at 5:56pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

4,299 posts

Wrong. Stalin killed his own political party members, millions more Russians that the Nazis ever did, and to date no one still knows how many Russians and Eastern Europeans died while under his regime. Hitler, while also killing millions, mainly Jews, boosted Germany to a higher standard of living and made it the best economy in the 30's and 40's. Stalin never really got Russia to the dream he claimed to have. Stalin seemed more like a lunatic at the right place and right time. Hitler, while also insane, used it to achieve his ends and was really for the German people. Stalin just liked power, no matter who it is over and no matter who he had to crush.


Read the rest of the sentence next time. I was saying he killed any opposition; which they both did. >.>
Stalin killed opposition and people he though were his enemies. Again, I was comparing that part of the two.

Everyone does that. Everyone! It just depends on what you think is propaganda and what is a.......TV ad.


Propaganda to the extent of completely brainwashing people. With a combination of killing opposition, the leaders both made their people think that they were the greatest.

Never, ever. Mussolini was more like a sidekick who did whatever Hitler told him to do. Transport out the Jews, defend this front, attack here. His regime, if you can call it that, never came close to what Hitler or Stalin had, or Lenin for that matter.


Mussolini used propaganda and killed anyone he (or Hitler) thought were opposing people. You aren't in the right mindset of what I'm talking about.

Karl Marx influenced Marxism. Communism is not exactly taken from his ideals. Basically it was shifted to fit what leaders wanted. Like China was running on a Maoism government for a time. Similar but not the same.


Influenced. Influenced. In other words, he made people's ideas change. He didn't completely make them something else.

Nazism and Communism are not close. Hitler and Stalin loathed each other and what they stood for. Again, similarities, but it's not accurate to call them close.


I'm not looking at relationships between anyone. You obviously don't see that (no offense). I am looking at how they influenced their people.
 

Posted Jul 23, '12 at 12:25am

samiel

samiel

415 posts

I think that communism is a more realistic concept than it seems the way i look at it its a bit like democracy but with a diffrent form of commerce how ever its still an abused concept like almost everything else

 

Posted Jul 23, '12 at 2:28am

devsaupa

devsaupa

1,849 posts

I'm not looking at relationships between anyone. You obviously don't see that (no offense). I am looking at how they influenced their people.


But why take the jump from Communism to what Hitler had? I see some link with the propaganda subject, but communism doesn't use propaganda as it's main weapon. Communism fuels off of the "commoners" anger at the system. Propaganda is just to keep people happy and ignorant to what is going on around them. Ignorance is bliss, and people will accept it more often than not.

With a combination of killing opposition, the leaders both made their people think that they were the greatest.


As long as things were going well. As soon as things started looking down, people became restless. Which brings up the question of whether it's the propaganda or the prosperity/intimidation that made people not question the governments motives. And propaganda really didn't work all that well in Russia. Evidence is the amount of civilians that had to "disappear" during the USSR's lifetime.

Influenced. In other words, he made people's ideas change. He didn't completely make them something else.


Influencing someone does not make them change their ideas or mind. The Vietnamese government were influenced by the US Constitution. Ho Chi Minh himself said so. But did their main motives and ideals change? No. The only way to make people think what you want them to think is complete brainwashing. Propaganda can plant ideas, but it is up to the person to decide whether or not to act on and accept those ideas. And isn't making someone's ideas change really making them something else? For example, if a Catholic changes his ideas about religion, he is of a different mentality, therefore he will act different, speak different, and live a different lifestyle.
 

Posted Jul 23, '12 at 10:59am

sensanaty

sensanaty

1,145 posts

Comunism is WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS


Why's that? The Russian communism, or Korean communism is nothing like the communism (or more precisely socialism) in many countries. In the Balkans, Yugoslavia was socialist. The times were good, life was better than ever. Now, we're not even Yugoslavia, we're 6 different countries which are pathetic by themselves. Socialism, or basic communism, was a savior for many people, including my parents and grandparents.

Better than being brainwashed in Capitalist America!


I quadruple this 4 times.

With this idea, communism or rather, true communism, is impossible...


Marx's original idea of Communism was never fulfilled. It never could have been fulfilled. People cannot govern for themselves, it's just **** straight impossible.
 
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