Forums → WEPR → whats the difference?

How are these ideas random?

Because it seems to me you have a certain belief and are trying to find scientifical explanations for them, but you're clinging too much on your own idea. You're taking bits of information and forming a pipe dream out of it. It is your right to believe in an afterlife, but there's no scientifical evidence for it, so stop saying there is.

The copy brain would be empty, to have said information copied unto it

The information, the consciousness, cannot survive out of the brain. Yuo build a copy brain, you have a copy consciousness.

you should also read this http://www.superconsciousness.com/topic ⦠-not-brain

Seriously? That guy is an esoteric guru.
To the article, I've read it, his only real point is that we don't know everything about consciousness yet. But he goes on and says we don't know anything, which is wrong. He makes lots of false claims, misinterpretations, fallacies and whatnot. I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously.

Because it seems to me you have a certain belief and are trying to find scientifical explanations for them, but you're clinging too much on your own idea. You're taking bits of information and forming a pipe dream out of it. It is your right to believe in an afterlife, but there's no scientifical evidence for it, so stop saying there is.

the consciousness, cannot survive out of the brain

This is where I first found the idea of quantum consciousness it does not show the entire video but it does show the views of some of the scientists, yes scientists, who have performed experiments and written hypotheses to write published works on evidence of this.

Seriously? That guy is an esoteric guru.
To the article, I've read it, his only real point is that we don't know everything about consciousness yet. But he goes on and says we don't know anything, which is wrong. He makes lots of false claims, misinterpretations, fallacies and whatnot. I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously.

I have yet to see you come up with counter information

This is where I first found the idea of quantum consciousness it does not show the entire video but it does show the views of some of the scientists, yes scientists, who have performed experiments and written hypotheses to write published works on evidence of this.

"scientists believe that..." hum. Some may think that there might be something, but that's in no way evidence. Many scientists believe there is a god, a christian god. That doesn't make it evidence. But, maybe you actually have those experiment reports and papers at hand to show me? And also please note in what journal they were published, so I can look out for comments from other scientists on those papers.

I have yet to see you come up with counter information

Counter information? Read a neurology book. Look at various cases of brain damage, most prominent being Phineas Gage. How can our consciousness exist without our brain if the brain is the reason of our consciousness? Gage got a serious lesion in the frontal lobe due to his accident. Since the area of selfcontrol was damaged, he started saying things and doing stuff he wouldn't have normally. His personality wasn't changed dramatically but there was a difference. How can that consciousness, that is completely dependent on our brain, travel by quantum processes and still be the same?

Most importantly, why should it? Why should that consciousness, patterned over years and years of development, internal and external inputs, suddenly become immortal, and where should it go? Why would it do so? Do we have any evidence it may be so, or is that just some way it could be, so that humanity doesn't have to put up with mortality and go on clinging on their petty selves thanks to that improbable back door?

maybe you actually have those experiment reports and papers at hand to show me?

sure here are some

sure here are some

Maybe you can help me out here, where does this source say consciousness can be brain independent?

There has been an increasing interest in the relations of
quantum mechanics, brain activities, and consciousness (1-
4). On the part of quantum physics the impetus came from the
interpretation of the measuring process, which is still on
debate, even after more than 60 years of overwhelmingly
successful applications ofquantum theory. However, there is
the question from neuroscience (5) whether quantum action
is needed to understand the functioning of the brain in its
subtle relations to experience, memory, and consciousness.
It was Wigner (6), in his stringent analysis of the consequences of measurements in a Stern-Gerlach experiment,
who first speculated that the von Neumann collapse of the
wave function (7) actually occurs by an act of consciousness
in the human brain and is not describable in terms ofordinary
quantum mechanics. More recently similar ideas were put
forward and partly combined with Everett's "many-world"
interpretation (8) of quantum theory (2). Other authors (e.g.,
ref. 1) have related quantum theory to consciousness on the
basis of the usual interpretation of the state vector as a
superposition of actualities [or &quotropensities," in Popper's
nomenclature (9)]. Not much connection has been made,
however, to the empirically established facts of brain physiology, nor have those authors attempted to locate a quantal
process in the functional microsites of the neocortex.
In this work we contribute to filling this gap by putting
forward a quantum mechanical description of bouton exocytosis. The next section gives an outline of the structure and
activity of the neocortex as introduction to the quantum
mechanical model. This is set up in the subsequent section.
Finally, the hypothesis for a coherent coupling of the individual probability amplitudes is introduced. In this model
action becomes possible by influence of a conscious will.

this quote connects the science of the brain the conscious and quantum physics.

Maybe you can help me out here, where does this source say consciousness can be brain independent?

still working on that, in the mean time here is another link

for an afterlife

Why would there be an afterlife?

this is what we've been discussing, if needed you can read through a second time

I read threw it. What I got is that you believe something and have been finding any "evidence" you can to even suggest that it would be possible.

your close mindedness isn't appreciated

"An all mighty being loves me, and I will never accept otherwise! Now quit being close minded and listen to my Zombie hypothesis!"

All you are doing is taking a preexisting story that you want to believe in and adding in some fake science. I will compare it to the undead, because we are on Armor games.

Since before history, people have believed in the undead. Much like gods. Every culture put what they feared in the undead, flesh eating, roaming the night (Or day, if you happened to live in the desert.), much like they put every positive thing into their gods. People came up with explanations on how the undead where formed, mostly coming up with magic. Eventually, as time went by, people stopped believing in magic. Magic seemed to be less real to us. So we started putting "science" in. Thus the Zombie was formed, using every kind of excuse that could be used and accounted as "Science". Viruses, Parasites, Mad Cow, anything was used as an excuse to make zombies. But, zombies are no more no more real then vampires, no matter what pseudoscience explanation makes them.

"An all mighty being loves me, and I will never accept otherwise! Now quit being close minded and listen to my Zombie hypothesis!"

All you are doing is taking a preexisting story that you want to believe in and adding in some fake science. I will compare it to the undead, because we are on Armor games.

Since before history, people have believed in the undead. Much like gods. Every culture put what they feared in the undead, flesh eating, roaming the night (Or day, if you happened to live in the desert.), much like they put every positive thing into their gods. People came up with explanations on how the undead where formed, mostly coming up with magic. Eventually, as time went by, people stopped believing in magic. Magic seemed to be less real to us. So we started putting "science" in. Thus the Zombie was formed, using every kind of excuse that could be used and accounted as "Science". Viruses, Parasites, Mad Cow, anything was used as an excuse to make zombies. But, zombies are no more no more real then vampires, no matter what pseudoscience explanation makes them.

you remind me of this guy

A few theoretical physicists have argued that classical physics is intrinsically incapable of explaining the holistic aspects of consciousness, but that quantum theory provides the missing aspects. However, some physicists and philosophers consider the arguments for an important role of quantum phenomena to be unconvincing.[1] Physicist Victor Stenger characterized quantum consciousness as a "myth" having "no scientific basis" that "should take its place along with gods, unicorns and dragons as yet another product of the fantasies of people unwilling to accept what science, reason and their own eyes tell them about the world." [2]

If we only accepted what our eyes told us we would be going nowhere

you remind me of this guy

Great! Now where is your argument? I looked for it, but could not find it.

You remind me of this guy:

I am stupid.

If we only accepted what our eyes told us we would be going nowhere

This, coming from you? Am am looking at what is there. You are looking at what you want to be there.

Why must there be an afterlife? Because you believe so. What evidence do you have in an afterlife? None. Is it possible to have an afterlife like the one you have? Possibly, if for some insane reason XX happened.

Now lets say I believe in zombies. After all, other species have similar diseases, such as rabies in mammals, so it is theoretically possible to engineer a similar disease that lasts longer by, I don't know, using fat and muscle as energy and drinking water. They do not actually rot, but take a rotting appearance from the mentioned energy melting. Is this possible? Maybe, I just made it up. Does it exist? No. Just as your afterlife, even if it was somehow possible, does not exist. You have no proof for it. You have no reason to believe that it exists, besides the fact that you where told that way. Now please tell me, why do you believe in the afterlife?

I just made it up

I did not just make this up, this is something that has been debated for decades

You have no reason to believe that it exists, besides the fact that you where told that way.

What? Who told me to believe a consciousness could exist outside of a brain through quantum mechanics?

This, coming from you? Am am looking at what is there. You are looking at what you want to be there.

you refute it

if for some insane reason XX happened.

but in the next sentence admit it to be possible

You remind me of this guy:

I am stupid.

Immature, but I'm not going to lie it made me laugh

I did not just make this up, this is something that has been debated for decades

Really? That stuff you have just made up?

What? Who told me to believe a consciousness could exist outside of a brain through quantum mechanics?

No. To believe in an afterlife. I thought that was clear.

you refute it

.....What?

but in the next sentence admit it to be possible

And in my last post, I admitted that it was possible that zombies would exist and that unicorns cause gravity. So congratulations, I admitted that you idea was just as possible as Unicorns being the cause of gravity. Feel pride.


Now answer me. Why do you believe in an afterlife?

Now answer me. Why do you believe in an afterlife?

no matter how I answer this question you will surely come up with an innumerable amount of reasons stating that I am wrong, so I answer with a second question

Why do you not?

no matter how I answer this question you will surely come up with an innumerable amount of reasons stating that I am wrong, so I answer with a second question

Then you know that it is an illogical belief?

Why do you not?

Because there is no proof. All the signs point to the brain simply "turning off" when we die, no afterlife, no magical second brain. We simply die, it will be exactly like before we where born. Why would it not be like that?

Why do you not believe in the Loch Ness monster? Why don't you believe in bigfoot? But most importantly, why do you believe in an afterlife?

Because there is no proof.

false, you just wish to believe in the scientific evidence towards your end of the spectrum

illogical belief?

Is it not also illogical to completely disregard all of the evidence towards an afterlife?

why do you believe in an afterlife?

Because I believe that there is evidence to support one

false, you just wish to believe in the scientific evidence towards your end of the spectrum

Great! Show me the proof then.

Is it not also illogical to completely disregard all of the evidence towards an afterlife?

Show me the evidence and I will see.

Because I believe that there is evidence to support one

Then show me. Do it now.