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An Austrian Perspective

Posted Jul 31, '12 at 10:03pm

314d1

314d1

3,510 posts

Now, let's delve into taxation in it's raw form. Taxation is the government's use of coercion to force innocent people to pay them money. Robbery, is the exact same thing. The only difference is that robbers take your money on the spot, whereas the government takes your money every time money exchanges hands. Robbery also often refers to the use of coercion in front of the individual, such as with a gun, whereas the government is more indirect. However, the coercion is still there.

Is it now? Montana does not have sales tax.

If I pointed a gun to you and demanded you give me money so I can spend that money to help other people, you don't call that taxation, you call it theft. When the government points a gun to you (or rather, tells you that they will arrest you and/or take your property by force if you don't comply), and they take your money to "help" other people, it's called taxation.

When I take someone against their will into a small room for something I feel they have done wrong in the past, it is called kidnapping. When the government does it, it is called prison. When I gather a bunch of people to go attack a random country for some reason, it is called terrorism. When the government does it it is called war. When I follow a random person, it is called stalking. When the government does it, it is called trailing a suspect. When do governments have the same morals as humans do?

I tend to support some taxation myself. I believe the government should be able to afford a military, a court system, as well as a few other expenses that may be necessary for the government to function. I do not support taxation that is used to "discourage" people from making certain purchases, such as a sin tax. I do not support taxation used to bail out irresponsible businesses. I do not support taxation for entitlement programs (why should we be forced to pay for a program we don't support?). When it comes to public goods and services, I tend to favor privatization, though there are some exceptions I am willing to make as long as there is a slow transition to privatization.

What public services are you suggesting get privatized? What should avoid privatization?

When Party A wants to buy from Party B, the government, or Party C, will take a small amount of cash from the exchange. This happens during every exchange we make. It doesn't matter if Party A or B consents to the tax or not, they are forced to pay.

Are you suggesting that they only pay taxes that they agree with?

Besides, I always thought "taxes" more of property tax then sales tax. That is what we have here, after all.

This is why taxation is compared to theft, and whether you think it's a necessary evil or not, it is theft.

Because it takes money to pay for necessary things like jails and roads?

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 2:15pm

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,374 posts

Is it now? Montana does not have sales tax.

You don't know how to debate.

When I take someone against their will into a small room for something I feel they have done wrong in the past, it is called kidnapping. When the government does it, it is called prison. When I gather a bunch of people to go attack a random country for some reason, it is called terrorism. When the government does it it is called war. When I follow a random person, it is called stalking. When the government does it, it is called trailing a suspect. When do governments have the same morals as humans do?

Anarcho-Capitalists argue that government itself is immoral.

What public services are you suggesting get privatized? What should avoid privatization?

Anything can be privatized. Most agree that law shouldn't be, however.

Are you suggesting that they only pay taxes that they agree with?

Besides, I always thought "taxes" more of property tax then sales tax. That is what we have here, after all.

You don't know how to debate.

Taxation is when the government, who has no money, takes money from individuals. Income tax, sales tax, property tax, consumption tax, etc. are all tax productive individuals. Land value tax is the only one where productive individuals are not taxed.

Because it takes money to pay for necessary things like jails and roads?

You don't know how to debate. A common theme I've noticed is that rather than providing your belief and supporting it, you question the opposing belief with rhetorical and ethical questions.

Theft is theft is theft is theft. Robin Hood was a thief, no matter what he spent the stolen money on.

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 3:06pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

whitout taxes who is going to pay for the roads and jails? -.-'

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 6:08pm

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,374 posts

whitout taxes who is going to pay for the roads and jails? -.-'

Private businesses would offer these goods and services to consumers more efficiently because they want to maximize profits.

After the fall of the USSR, former Soviet citizens were stunned that food would still be produced if their government wasn't in charge of it.

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 7:44pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

Private businesses would offer these goods and services to consumers more efficiently because they want to maximize profits.

and you think they will let you drive on their roads for free?
and all these different businesses would have different road signs and different types of asphalt. and roads that do not connect properly. all is cheap and low quality to maximize the profit, etc. it would be a big mess.
and businesses pay for jails? who is going to send them there? also the businesses? because the judges are paid whit tax money. if they don't get paid they don't work. again it will end up in a mess.

After the fall of the USSR, former Soviet citizens were stunned that food would still be produced if their government wasn't in charge of it.

your comparing food (a 1st necessity of life) whit roads and jails?
ofcours they kept making food. the regime may fell but the people and products were still at the same place.

it's totaly irrelevant.

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 7:55pm

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,374 posts

and you think they will let you drive on their roads for free?

I don't think you realize that roads aren't free. Someone has to pay.

and all these different businesses would have different road signs and different types of asphalt. and roads that do not connect properly.

Not at all. Roads existed long before government and will continue to exist long after government.

I don't think you understand how roads are built. The government hires construction companies to build roads. Instead of the government, it would be the owners of buildings that lie on the planned road. The owners would take care of the road as well as sidewalks and the trees, garbage cans, public urinals, etc. that lie on them because they have an incentive to do so, unlike government.

Your statement that, "they do not connect properly" is so false. Explain to me: why wouldn't they connect properly?

all is cheap and low quality to maximize the profit, etc.

Are computers low quality? Is your desk low quality? Is your chair low quality? Most likely, no. Companies offer high quality goods and services because that will maximize profits.

it would be a big mess.
and businesses pay for jails?

Some states have privatized prisons and they have worked pretty well.

who is going to send them there?

Government.

your comparing food (a 1st necessity of life) whit roads and jails?
ofcours they kept making food. the regime may fell but the people and products were still at the same place.

it's totaly irrelevant.

This makes no sense. Are you really so ignorant that you can't understand the point I am making?

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 8:50pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

your points make no sense.
they are based on irrelevent thoughts.
you seem very naive.
and despite that i would realy like to set you right on all that what you see wrong.
i don't think i will be able to change your view. because it's all already stuck in your head.

good luck whit your ideas. i'm just happy it will never happen =)
good day.

(ofcours you now are going to quote "don't think i will be able to change your view. because" and set your own view behind it. (it's a open goal, go for it) but i don't care. ive said what i wanted)

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 9:13pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

i'm just happy it will never happen =)

although, i would laugh my *** off from the sideline....

go for president and do it kevin. =D
(bha to bad the president doesn't has that power.)

 

Posted Aug 1, '12 at 9:17pm

Kevin4762

Kevin4762

2,374 posts

>says stupid
>can't back it up
>hurr durr your ideas SUCK

Oh and by the way, did you fail English in school or are you just so lazy that you can't take the 30 extra seconds to spell words correctly?

 
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