Forums

ForumsArt, Music, and Writing

Art Skills Competition: Fire and Water (page 56)

Posted Jan 16, '13 at 4:46pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

3,950 posts

@Strop
Noted. Nothing to argue/talk about there, except for the fact that we could use some and any more substitutes for a roster.

Ok, I lied. There was one little issue. When this was attempted for the haiku contest (the roster thing), the contest ended up in smoke, with Murasaki and Emp left to pick up the pieces. Basically, every roster judge ended up vanishing or quitting, and there wasn't a back up plan to fall back on. We cannot have the same problem, so if we are going to trek on a journey involving a roster of any sort, we'll need to employ the help of a permanent judge (or 10) that will be sure to help around in case anything blows up. I'm fairly consistent around here, but my WiFi tends to act up every once in a while. I know you and Cen have schooling and all, so I understand you won't always be there. Bronze has his art classes, and killersup is in school too.

@Cen
Noted. About the photo, I couldn't resist the opportunity. I thought it was pretty funny.

 

Posted Jan 16, '13 at 5:08pm

Reton8

Reton8

2,491 posts

Moderator

To go along with all that is being said, to me, The Art Skills Competition is only as strong as the skills of the judge. In other words, if the judge can't say something insightful about a piece why enter? Half of the fun is having your piece critiqued, seeing how your piece was interpreted and if you were able to convey the message you wanted. Seeing what was done right and what was done wrong and how to fix it. However, it is difficult to parse out, and critique, the different aspects of a piece if you don't have any formal training/ lots of experience with art.

I've taken one humanities course (which covers how to examine art) and I feel like judging a piece of art should similar to how art is examined within the humanities discipline.  (Here's another useful link to art terms.)

A set of criteria for judging, to me, would cover something like this:

- What was the genre/style of the piece? (abstract, semi-abstract, realism, hyper realism, photorealism, trompe l'oeil, [cubism?])

- What is the space? How was the space filled / use of positive and negative space / balance of the piece? (Symmetrically or asymetrically)

- How was the use of line employed in the art? (Link 2)? (implied line)

- What types of "brush strokes" (link 2) were used and what do they convey about the piece (if applicable)?

- How was color, value, tone, texture, utilized in the piece? Did they contribute or take away from the piece? ( warm and cool colors, chiarascuro/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiarascuro]chiarascuro[/url],tint and shade, etc.

- What is the subject of the piece, the theme, and message being conveyed? Does the piece portray the  message it is trying to convey?

Okay you get the idea. It was easy for me to throw these terms up here(I may have placed some ideas/terms in the wrong categories), but you get the idea, the judging should follow the "industry standard" of the art world (that might be an oxymoron). You wouldn't have to use all the criteria per se,but at least some sort of common set of terms/ideas linked to art should be used.

Judging is hard work. I'll say that it is probably easier for me to throw this criteria up here than to actually use it in judging. I would have a much more difficult time actually employing this.

But look at the difference between this:

"I like the ways the colors look and the piece looks scary"

compared to

"The warm colors of the sky really contrast the cool colors used in the ocean. The sky adds a sense of activity to the piece that contrasts the calmness of the "prestorm" ocean. The heavy use of chiaroscuro adds to the suspenseful tone of the piece. This effect is complimented by the asymmetrical aspects of the piece."

It's easier to write the first, but the latter has more depth.
You get what I'm saying right? Ehh, I'm just blathering.

 

Posted Jan 16, '13 at 6:03pm

gaboloth

gaboloth

1,372 posts

I could argue that if judging can be done following such descriptive and strict guidelines, one could do just it himself with no difference. Maybe judging is more meaningful if you get to hear someone's feelings and opinions rather than just an objective analysis of the piece? Of course this would make judgings more subjective, and one could not care about random people's opinions, but as long as the artist has a good opinion of the judge's artistic knowledge, I think it's much preferable.
(in case you were wondering, I'm pretty much blathering as well.)

 

Posted Jan 16, '13 at 10:05pm

Reton8

Reton8

2,491 posts

Moderator

I could argue that if judging can be done following such descriptive and strict guidelines, one could do just it himself with no difference.

I get what your saying, I think. Something like, art isn't just an algorithm or set of criteria. If it were a computer program could just be set up to do the judging, which is very "un-art-like".

I guess I just liked the way I learned how to break down a piece of art in my course. It's not the only way, but It was a solid way to make one's thoughts (on a piece of art) tangible.

I don't know if humanities is a standard and I doubt that even "professional artists" break down their own pieces as much as some critiques. (Do artists really say to themselves before starting a work, "I want to use a lot of chiaroscuro in this piece to add weight and a sombre tone."? I don't know.)

if you get to hear someone's feelings and opinions rather than just an objective analysis of the piece?

I was also trying to get at each piece is individual. Judging should be flexible to each piece. That's why defining a genre/style is important. A semi-abstract work might not be a very good photo-realistic work, but that wasn't the goal of the artist when they decided to make a semi-abstract piece. So it'd be inappropriate to say,"the people in your piece didn't have faces and they didn't look real. There was no shading at all." When the piece was done like that on purpose, with reason.

Looking at the subject and theme is very important too, but difficult. The judge can't be in the artists head. Doesn't good art usual have a purpose, theme, subject, some sort of reasoning behind it (or no reasoning behind it for the sake of having no reason which might be a reason in and of itself? Like a commentary on art? I'm blathering like Doofenshmirtz again.)

What if the theme for the week's contest is trains and a contestant enters a drawing of a turtle. I feel a good judge would research/ask the contestant why. If the contestant has a solid reason to relate turtles to trains, the piece may end up having greater depth or have a powerful message behind or at least be unique, but if the contestant just says "I like turtles."
then the contestant has failed to find a subject or theme and convey it.

I guess I care about this because I cringe when I see judging that only looks at the surface or tries to force all art into one genre and if it doesn't fit that genre it's not good. And I've seen it happen a lot on the forums  and I feel bad for contestants who work hard on a piece only to be told it was bad because it should have been colored blue and done in photoshop instead of ink. But judging is difficult too, and time consuming. So although I do cringe, I still appreciate any judge who has spent time doing so. Blathering again.

Well, TLDR. but, my thoughts on the subject.

 

Posted Jan 16, '13 at 10:06pm

Reton8

Reton8

2,491 posts

Moderator

then the contestant has failed to find a subject or theme and convey it.*  within the contest rules at least.

 

Posted Jan 17, '13 at 2:07am

Strop

Strop

10,823 posts

Moderator

There was one little issue. When this was attempted for the haiku contest (the roster thing), the contest ended up in smoke, with Murasaki and Emp left to pick up the pieces. Basically, every roster judge ended up vanishing or quitting, and there wasn't a back up plan to fall back on.

Agreed, I'm aware that it's often difficult to maintain a sense of commitment here. There's no substitute for being able to deliver when the time comes but the best laid plans of mice and men... so yes we'll need a backup. After registrations of interest, we'll talk about who's available when. A model of permanent judge with backup may be the way to go. Or I may simply encourage people to be vocal about their unavailability early rather than later. It may end up being like a round of job interviews lol.

As for judging:

The Art Skills Competition is only as strong as the skills of the judge

This pretty much summarises the various ups and downs of the contest. The ASC is busiest when the judge makes incisive and detailed comments on each piece. People also complain the most (or participate the least) when they feel they were ignored or glossed over, which indicates that the judge should ideally be somebody who is at least versed in art. I'm somewhat with reton8 on this one, in that it's worth using industry-standard concepts (I wouldn't strictly adhere to the terminology), but at the same time I also think that it may not be 100% relevant to this particular contest to attempt to judge objectively via industry standard, so much as using those concepts to enhance people's understanding of why one might highlight the virtues of one piece over the rest. That's what I was shooting for in my explanation on the previous page.

 

Posted Jan 18, '13 at 1:47pm

Bronze

Bronze

2,337 posts

I didn't need to think long with this theme. AG is known for its flash games, so the obvious thing was to draw something related to that. And so I drew up this:

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/BronzeCAE09/galiant.jpg

If you can't guess or don't know, that is Galiant the Paladin from the first Sonny and the evil Baron Brixius behind him. My two favorite flash game characters, and they are also a big reason I joined AG.

I tried to keep Galiant as close to as his in game character as possible, but with a few change ups. All in all, I feel like it is just OK. I'm a little iffy on how I managed the shining blues and reds, but they could be worse.

 

Posted Jan 21, '13 at 12:00am

daleks

daleks

3,176 posts

I respect everyone I know, it's a principle of mine. Do onto others, and all that jazz.

You seem to be harder on yourself than other people Cen. Anyway, isn't this an art thread? More art people! Or talk through art or something.

 

Posted Jan 21, '13 at 1:58am

Hectichermit

Hectichermit

1,145 posts

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/020/b/6/ag_elephant_by_hectichermit-d5s70uq.png

If you don't know this character then you lack AG fandom...because its in several games

 

Posted Jan 23, '13 at 11:52am

gaboloth

gaboloth

1,372 posts

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/gaboloth/img038_zps30e903e8B_zps6f6d3dc4.jpg

Vandheer Lorde, from one of the best games of AG. I know it's terrible and unoriginal, I'm pretty much just uploading it to raise the entry number. :P

 
Reply to Art Skills Competition: Fire and Water (page 56)

You must be logged in to post a reply!