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Posted Sep 16, '12 at 9:23pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,687 posts

Knight

And they're not scientists either.

It's not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm not going to listen to some puny lab rat when my body speaks for itself.

Just like I'm not going to let some 150 pound trainer in the gym tell me how to bench press or squat. If it's working for me and I'm fine, no need to change.

But I'd argue that if you're experiencing joint pain without any support, you either are lifting too heavy or have some sort of medical condition. Or you're not warming up properly.

I can hit 225 on bench for 8-10 reps. It's considered heavy weight to a lot of people. If you do heavy bench press without any sort of gear, in the long run you'll be experiencing joint pain (elbows and wrists). It's not an immediate thing, it takes time to develop.

You see those big guys that can bench press 405+ for 10+ reps? They're almost always wearing some kind of gear. Be it wrist wraps, elbow wraps, and/or a belt. It's dumb to not workout with those, because heavy weight will have an affect later on.

And on leg press it's kinda mandatory to wear knee wraps. A lot of people with strong legs can lift heavy on that machine.

From various users on bodybuilding.com, it seems like the consensus is to use knee wraps mainly for high weight, low rep lifts (1RMs for instance).

It depends on the person. If you can do heavy weight like 315+ squat for around 10 reps, you'll want to wear knee wraps. Heavy weight like that has an affect on you after a long time of not wearing gear.

I imagine it'd be the same for weight belts.

Weight belts are for lower back and core support. Lowers the chance of getting a hernia and pulling out your back. I'd say to wear a belt for most things that involve the use of those two body parts.

It's not relying on them, just taking safety measures. Gear isn't going to dramatically increase the weight you lift, it's around 10-30 pounds for the gear mentioned. It's mostly there to protect you.

It's like a helmet for a motorcycle. Sensible people aren't going to drive a motorcycle without a helmet, because if you fall off you're going to get a major head injury. The helmet reduces the risk of that.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 12:45am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

It's not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm not going to listen to some puny lab rat when my body speaks for itself.

I'd say bodybuilding and powerlifting are more meticulous processes than the layman would think. Yes, pro bodybuilders have results to prove themselves, but they're on steroids and have personal trainers who have knowledge about the scientific framework that goes into bodybuilding. Those alleged "puny lab rats" may not be big for a number of reasons, be it time constraints, lack of interest, etc. But puny is a generalization; I suggest checking out Eric Helms or Alan Aragon, scientists who have been involved with bodybuilding. They're treasures troves of information with physiques to prove it.

I mean, this whole "broscience" thing...yes, everyone is different, and in the end, you have to figure out what works best for you. But there are certain things that have been proven by science that shouldn't be ignored. Furthermore, blindly following others because "it works for them" can be potentially dangerous. At best, they should only serve as suggestions to your own protocol.

Then again, **** really isn't THAT serious. Studying the science behind bodybuilding/powerlifting mainly applies to those who want to stand on stage or drop below 10% body fat or squat more than two times their weight. Specific goals that go beyond casual weightlifting. I myself have a few of these kinds of goals that I'm aiming for, but more importantly, I just want to maximize my gains after every session in the gym. For me, it's worth it to learn, especially since I find nutrition, health, and lifting interesting.

And about knee wraps...this. Pretty much what I was thinking. Squats can actually be good for your knees if you let them be. The same rationale goes into the usage of weight belts.

Now if you're recovering from an injury, that's a different story.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 1:40am

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,687 posts

Knight

I'd say bodybuilding and powerlifting are more meticulous processes than the layman would think.

It takes a lot of dedication, concentration, and knowledge. You have to know what to eat, when to eat, when to sleep, how long to sleep, when to workout, how long to workout, what muscles to target, how you'll target them. It's more than the physical aspect, if you don't have the mental part down, you won't get far. It's not just about pushing iron around, it's far deeper than that.

Take Kai Greene for example. His body is a masterpiece, all of those guy's bodies are. It takes a lot to get to where they are. It's not simply take steroids and push iron around.

Or if you don't want to take guys who are on steroids, take Scooby, Hodgetwins, or Ogus. It's not cut out for everyone.

they're on steroids

That means that they have to put forth twice the effort. Just because they're on steroids doesn't mean it's going to be super easy for them. You can't just take a steroid and stick to your normal routine and expect to get big. Getting a body like Kai Greene and those other pros will take years of immense training. There are other things to consider as well.

But there are certain things that have been proven by science that shouldn't be ignored.

I know, but I'm not going to constrain myself to being in the gym for only an hour.

I've worked out for only 45-60 minutes before for some months, and I didn't see much results. In the beginning of the summer for about two months I did everything in my basement, and I had all the necessary equipment to hit all the muscles, but I could only do those things for so long.

When I go to the gym my mindset is to hit my muscles in every way possible and so hard that I'll be able to feel it and see results. To do that I have to be in there for an hour and a half to two hours.

I've tried the 45-60 minute time constraint in the gym before, and it just doesn't do it for me. It's not enough time to do everything I want to do and I don't feel much afterwards.

Then again, **** really isn't THAT serious.

Bodybuilding, powerlifting, etc, is very serious. If you don't have the dedication and concentration for it, you won't get anywhere. You have to sacrifice a lot to get somewhere with it and keep to a solid routine. I'm not just talking about the workout routine, but the eating, drinking, and sleeping as well.

If you go into the gym with the mindset that "I'll be here for 45 minutes and do this and that then go and see my friends", good luck. It's way more serious and deeper than that.

Furthermore, blindly following others because "it works for them" can be potentially dangerous.

You have to try things to see if they work or not. That's a big part of it all: if you don't have experience in it then how will you truly know?

@Links: That's pretty obvious. Don't use weight belt while doing core training or light weight. If you go into the gym and use a weight belt for 135 pound bench, you're doing something wrong.

Took this from a Bodybuilding.com article:
weight sessions should be no longer than 45 minutes.
Yeah... if I only worked out for 45 minutes I'd be nowhere near where I am now. I know bigger guys at the gym that work out for about the same time as me.

In the end, I say don't worry about it and go based on feel. If you still feel great and want to keep going at the one hour mark, go ahead, but if you start feeling sick and sore, stop.

Take my Saturday workout for example: I was in there doing legs and my leg workout lasted around an hour, give or take a few minutes, then I went onto my first set of biceps and after that I felt like I was gonna puke. I gathered myself in the locker room then left.

That also taught me that I should not work EVERYTHING out twice a week. I'm still gonna do back and legs twice a week since they're the biggest muscles, but I'm going to have days where I just do that, then a day where I'll split it up. almost everything else will be done once, since I'll be aiming for high intensity now.

My chest and tri's day last week lasted about an hour and a half, and I felt soreness in those areas for a few days, which told me that I should stick with that routine.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 8:10am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

It takes a lot of dedication, concentration, and knowledge. You have to know what to eat, when to eat, when to sleep, how long to sleep, when to workout, how long to workout, what muscles to target, how you'll target them. It's more than the physical aspect, if you don't have the mental part down, you won't get far. It's not just about pushing iron around, it's far deeper than that.

Bodybuilding, powerlifting, etc, is very serious. If you don't have the dedication and concentration for it, you won't get anywhere. You have to sacrifice a lot to get somewhere with it and keep to a solid routine. I'm not just talking about the workout routine, but the eating, drinking, and sleeping as well.

Exactly, but that being said, if you're turning a blind eye to the most technical aspects of bodybuilding, it's probably not as serious as you think.

Or if you don't want to take guys who are on steroids, take Scooby, Hodgetwins, or Ogus. It's not cut out for everyone.

They're all big and experienced (though Scooby isn't too aesthetic), but the only one among them that I would listen to for actual advice is Ogus. He takes a more scientific approach to bodybuilding, especially with Eric Helms behind his back. (Check out the videos with Helms on Ogus's channel.)

That's pretty obvious. Don't use weight belt while doing core training or light weight. If you go into the gym and use a weight belt for 135 pound bench, you're doing something wrong.

Er, I was more referring to the not using them for the below 80-85% 1RM lifts part. So yeah, if you feel comfortable with 315 on your back, and you're able to squat a max of 405, there really isn't a need for knee wraps or weight belts as long as your quadriceps and hamstrings are balanced.

Of course, if you can show me definitive proof that squatting heavy for reps leads to negative consequences in the long-term, I'll shut up. I, however, am a skeptic, as most people should be, bodybuilding or not. So far, it seems like just another one of those bodybuilding myths.

My chest and tri's day last week lasted about an hour and a half, and I felt soreness in those areas for a few days, which told me that I should stick with that routine.

To be fair: 1) 1.5 hours is fine, though borderline; 2) DOMS is actually caused primarily by the eccentric or negative phase of your lifts. So if you want to experiment, try condensing your workout but giving specific focus to the negatives of every lift.

And in my opinion, the most efficient way to gauge how effective a previous workout was is to simply wait a week and see how much stronger you've gotten. It's crude, but typically, increases in strength mean increases in muscle mass. Soreness isn't such a great metric because people go out of their ways to alleviate it (supplements, hydrotherapy, foam rolling).

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 10:22am

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,687 posts

Knight

if you're turning a blind eye to the most technical aspects of bodybuilding, it's probably not as serious as you think.

I've just never had any issues with long workouts.

Most days this week should last an hour to an hour and a half. The exception will be biceps. Since your biceps are the smallest muscle when compared to everything else and the fact that you use them for a lot of exercises, you don't have to work them that much. And when I do biceps I try to keep the rest period down to 30 seconds to keep that pump going.

Soreness isn't such a great metric because people go out of their ways to alleviate it (supplements, hydrotherapy, foam rolling).

For me, it kinda is. If I can feel soreness in the muscles near the end of my workout and the day after by flexing those areas and it's difficult for me to do any more exercises, it tells me I've done something right. I warmup and stretch well before going to my main workout, but I don't think that has much effect on my soreness after.

So if you want to experiment, try condensing your workout but giving specific focus to the negatives of every lift.

I already give emphasis to the negatives on most exercises. I mean, I'm not going 5+ seconds on it, but around 2-3 seconds.

They're all big and experienced (though Scooby isn't too aesthetic), but the only one among them that I would listen to for actual advice is Ogus.

I'm more inclined to listen to Scooby, because he's in his 50's and still has a masterpiece of a body. More experienced.

Anyway, I'm supposed to lift heavy today for bench. I'll see if I've gotten stronger or not.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 1:34pm

zolyone

zolyone

1 post

Dejo :):)

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 1:34pm

palika476

palika476

1 post

I love play football!!!:D

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 5:49pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,687 posts

Knight

Today was ****ing amazing.

Chest and tri's, the workout lasted from 4:10pm to 5:20pm.

Flat barbell bench press:
225 - 10
275 - 1 (could've gotten 5, but didn't want to exhaust myself)
300 - 1 (could've gotten 2 or 3, ^)
315 - 1 (clean press with perfect form)
315 - 1 (this was just a negative, I focused on getting it down slowly and had my spotter help get it back up)
275 - 4
275 - 2

Incline dumbbell press:
70 - 12
85 - 10
60 - 15

Flat dumbbell press:
60 - 15
60 - 12
60 - 10
I wanted to use heavier weight, but the dumbbells I wanted were being used.

Skull crushers:
75 - 15
75 - 12
75 - 10
You don't have to use really heavy weight to stimulate your triceps.

Tricep pull downs:
Rope:
100 - 12
100 - 12
Metal bar:
110 - 15
110 - 15
Single handed:
50 - 10
40 - 15
30 - 20
Each arm of course with single handed. Do all those to hit every part of the tricep, you don't want to just focus on one area.

Seated chest press:
180 - 15
200 - 10

And to end the workout, I just did reverse grip tricep pull downs with the metal bar; 70 pounds to failure, which was around 20-25 reps. I wasn't focusing on counting.

I felt amazing burns and pumps in my chest and tri's, this is what I'm aiming for every time I workout.

Next Monday which is also the next chest and tri's day, I'll substitute flat bench press with incline and fit in close grip bench press.

I have back tomorrow.

 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 7:37pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,687 posts

Knight

A solid hour and some minutes workout today for back, I'm working on that intensity. Worked out later than usual because I had to go to doctors earlier.

Dumbbell rows x 3
Bent over rows x 3
T-bar rows x 3
Seated iso-rows x 3
Seated wide grip rows x 3
Close grip reverse pull downs x 3
Wide grip pulldowns x 3

Then I did some forearms exercises and one set of dumbbell rows to failure.

I forgot to do the seated close grip rows, but whatever. I felt like it was a good workout.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 2:14am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

I'm improving at a steady but nonetheless rapid rate on my squats. About ten pounds per week so far. But I think I suffered a minor injury today. In the midst of doing lunges, I felt a sharp pain in the middle of my right thigh that has persisted until now. It's definitely muscle-related. I don't feel it when I'm walking or even jumping (allowing me to continue with the plyometric aspects of my regimen), but the pain is still sharp whenever I enter the lunge position or stretch my quad out. Anyone ever experience something similar? No swelling. Feels a bit harder in that area than usual. Might try foam rolling tomorrow.