Forums

ForumsThe Tavern

[REQUESTED] Health and fitness

Thread Locked

Posted Nov 17, '12 at 10:47pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,693 posts

Knight

If you truly want to focus on "health and fitness" as this thread suggests, then taking performance enhancers completely destroys the purpose due to *possible* harmful side effects...plus it really is "cheating" for muscle gains.

The only harmful side effect creatine has is if you don't drink enough water you'll destroy your kidneys, otherwise it's the safest and best supplement to use. Cheating? No, not at all. For more information on creatine read this.

Poor analogy, I've been taking creatine for years whenever I train and I've only seen positive results, nothing negative. If you don't want an extra boost while training, then by all means don't take creatine. But don't state that creatine is bad and that I'm hurting myself by taking it when none of the sort is true.

 

Posted Nov 18, '12 at 2:52am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

The only harmful side effect creatine has is if you don't drink enough water you'll destroy your kidneys, otherwise it's the safest and best supplement to use. Cheating? No, not at all. For more information on creatine read this.

Let's not jump to conclusions. I take creatine as well, as it has been proven to be performance-enhancing for anaerobic exercise. But while short term creatine use has so far shown to be safe (as long the recommended dosage is not exceeded daily), the same cannot be said for long-term implications. Since our body produces creatine at low levels, it is difficult to say whether increasing the level of creatine substantially in our bodies is dangerous in the long run.

plus it really is "cheating" for muscle gains.

Won't make this a long-winded semantic argument, but how is it "cheating?" It's just a tool to help build muscle, but nothing is being cheated. It's as if you're saying taking creatine is morally unethical, but that's just ridiculous. I wouldn't even consider the use of anabolic steroids as "cheating." A person can do whatever he wants as long as it remains within normative moral boundaries.

Also taking creatine to get muscle gains is literally cheating, you are fooling yourself. The creatine just distorts your figure by retaining water in your muscles, and providing you with a boost to lift heavier.

Probably an individual thing, but creatine usage has not distorted my figure. I don't appear to retain more water, resulting in a bloated appearance, when I'm on creatine. And assuming your figure is "distorted," just get off the creatine and you'll eventually lose the bloated look.

You are literally degrading the quality of your body in the long run.

Going to be impartial here. As you said, the negative side effects are possible. But that is not a guarantee, so you cannot say this absolutely.

 

Posted Nov 18, '12 at 3:14am

Graham

Graham

6,422 posts

Instead of going into long-winded arguments about purely experiential (not reliable) evidence, do a simple google search.

http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/

Enjoy never knowing your natty potential.

 

Posted Nov 18, '12 at 8:03am

Strop

Strop

10,823 posts

Moderator

A person can do whatever he wants as long as it remains within normative moral boundaries.

I think I understand what you're saying here, but I would not recommend using "normative moral boundaries" as a yardstick for anything, because then if somebody tried to examine those values you'd fall into a recursive loop: it's normal because it's normal.

"Cheating" is a term that can only be applied if there's specific parameters as to how one acceptably achieves an outcome. In this case the prior poster asserted that there would be higher water content (assumedly hypertrophy, as opposed to hyperplasia), and so the gains would be size but not strength. I can't comment on this claim.

Enjoy never knowing your natty potential.

What a nifty site that is. So this stuff has fairly substantial level A evidence huh? I should take a look at the actual papers themselves and check their peer-review process, as well as their confidence intervals and p values.

Oooooooorrrr I could not bother doing that because I already have another topic with which I have to do the same thing for a presentation on Friday, and instead resort to the old way of medical experimentation, and try it for myself.

 

Posted Nov 18, '12 at 3:40pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,693 posts

Knight

Enjoy never knowing your natty potential.

Natty potential off creatine for me: 10-15 pounds lost on big lifts and less energy, I could regain that strength back, but it would probably take longer to increase while off creatine. It's not a huge difference. Doesn't matter to me though, I'd rather be on a safe supplement and speed up the progress than delay it.

 

Posted Nov 19, '12 at 6:38am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

This whole thing about natty potential with/without creatine... Since when does creatine increase the limits to your natty potential? It may help you reach that physique faster, but you're going to be the same size fifteen years later with or without creatine ceteris paribus.

 

Posted Nov 19, '12 at 10:08am

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,693 posts

Knight

Four hours of sleep (Black Ops 2 is fun, but I'll have to change my play times...), don't expect my regular performance later on. However I didn't feel that tired when I woke up, not sure, but I feel bad whenever I miss workouts. Just makes me feel lazy.

 

Posted Nov 19, '12 at 2:18pm

GhostOfMatrix

GhostOfMatrix

11,693 posts

Knight

Incline dumbbell press:
70 - 12
70 x 3 - 10

Flat dumbbell press:
70 - 8
70 - 6
60 - 10
60 - 8

Flat dumbbell flyes:
40 x 4 - 8

Incline dumbbell flyes:
40 - 8
30 - 12
30 x 2 - 10

Bodyweight dips (250):
6
5
3

Skullcrushers (seated):
85 - 10
95 x 2 - 8

Cable pushdowns:
120 x 3 - 10

Without a spotter the dumbbells are much safer, and I feel like they're more effective currently. I think I'll start doing more sets of dips, maybe 5/6 sets. Take out pushdowns and keep the skullcrushers or something.

 

Posted Nov 20, '12 at 1:52am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,629 posts

So I've started doing Crossfit recently...and was wondering what your general thoughts were on it Ghost? (bein as you are the fitness expert around here)

 

Posted Nov 20, '12 at 4:38am

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

So I've started doing Crossfit recently...

Just wanted to say something...

I think Crossfit, despite the sometimes cult-like support that it has, is, for the most part, a solid program. It does, however, depend on your goals. If your goal is to become as big and muscular as genetically possible, Crossfit is not optimal. It may get you there, but a bodybuilding program will give you gains faster. If your goal is general athleticism, Crossfit will help with its Olympic weightlifting components. But certain exercises are plain ridiculous, like kipping pullups. If you want explosiveness, speed, power, etc.,  I'd just do a little bit of research and compose my own program instead of following the Crossfit protocol (though I'm not sure how flexible it is). It is nice though to have so many fitness enthusiasts in the Crossfit community to support and advise you.