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NYC and Chicago Shootings.

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 4:51pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,086 posts

Knight

You never said mass shootings, you only said shootings. Technically, any murder using a firearm is a shooting because the person getting murdered got shot. Also aggravated assaults involving firearms qualify as shootings.

Just saying.

You're right, technically. Now read the thread title and repeat that, smart-***.

Anyway... mass shootings involve legally purchased weapons, as the last examples showed. Why? Because they're not performed by criminals, but by regular people going amok. You could of course argue that the amount of victims is small compared to the overall gun murders. That's true; but those tend to go unnoticed, while massacres tend to stigmatize the population. So I wouldn't discard them as unimportant, so let's focus on them.

Everytime something like that happens, gun legislation becomes a hot topic again. Most arguments in favor of the current legislation turn around your holy right to possess firearms, for leisure and protection. I cannot really argue against that, even though I still don't like it. Fine, sell weapons to the populace. But massacres do show one thing: there is not enough control about the actual sales. Restriction is one thing, control another. I don't mean that you should go Big Brother on every gun sale, but isn't it a little suspicious when one person buys so many weapons/explosive merchandise? Wouldn't it make sense in such a case for the salesperson to have a way to contact the authorities to inform them about suspicious cases? Or do they refuse to risk decreasing their holy profit?

 

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 5:19pm

314d1

314d1

3,510 posts

But massacres do show one thing: there is not enough control about the actual sales. Restriction is one thing, control another. I don't mean that you should go Big Brother on every gun sale, but isn't it a little suspicious when one person buys so many weapons/explosive merchandise? Wouldn't it make sense in such a case for the salesperson to have a way to contact the authorities to inform them about suspicious cases? Or do they refuse to risk decreasing their holy profit?

They did notice, at least the gun club he applied to did. I am sure that the gun stores would have noticed, but from what I can tell he bought them from different sources. While someone buying 6,000 bullets and half a dozen guns at once might cause suspicion, someone buying a box of bullets wouldn't. You act like he just went into a random gun store and said "I need something that can kill a bunch of people. And enough bullets to take down Cathulu" and the clerk just nodded and said "Whatever". The stuff he did buy in bulk he bought of the internet, where they can hardly tell if he is sane or not, and it would seem like a normal order. He took several steps to not seem insane, because people WOULD notice if he didn't.

 

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 5:35pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,086 posts

Knight

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Now that you mention it, I remember reading about the buying ammo on the internet part. So, prohibit weapon/ammo sales via internet? Oh wait, that would make it impossible to buy any sword via internet too. How about just ammos then? *exhibits hypocritic smile*

If control doens't help, I suppose it means we're back on discussing restriction. Oh dear... I'm done here.

 

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 7:50pm

Blackbeltr0

Blackbeltr0

736 posts

what happened to the shooter is he in jail for life??????

 

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 8:29pm

314d1

314d1

3,510 posts

what happened to the shooter is he in jail for life??????

His lawyer is pushing for insanity, and trying to find out what mental illnesses he has. If unsuccessful, he will be executed, probably. Otherwise he has three choices: Not Guilty (Death), Guilty (Life in prison, depending on plea deal), or Guilty But Insane (I don't know what the state law is on this, but probably life as well). He has not plead yet, we will have to see.

 

Posted Sep 3, '12 at 10:32pm

AatosLiukkonen

AatosLiukkonen

67 posts

Wouldn't it make sense in such a case for the salesperson to have a way to contact the authorities to inform them about suspicious cases?

Considering they already do background checks in most states, there is simply nothing a person can do to stop a previously law-abiding citizen from killing people with legal firearms. Complete and total prohibition would stop many, yes, but not all, compounded with the problem of illegally owned guns, which are in the vast majority, of which such legislation would have no effect.

but isn't it a little suspicious when one person buys so many weapons/explosive merchandise

Well, unless you propose you jail me for what I'm planning to buy for my 18th birthday, I'd go for "it really doesn't matter."

Of the amount of weapons legally purchased, even in quantity (not uncommon for people who might run gun clubs, etc.), very few will end up being used in crime by the original purchaser. That's not to say they won't be stolen and used in crime, as this is a very common problem, but taking something away from law abiding citizens because it might be obtained via theft by criminals is quite frankly absurd.

But massacres do show one thing: there is not enough control about the actual sales

No amount of background checks, insanity checks, waiting periods, or prohibitions will stop somebody from killing others if he wants to, especially in America. These people come in, are completely normal, and act like regular customers, and rarely buy weapons in bulk over one counter. If they want to kill people, they don't even need to buy the weapons, as you can pick any random house in America and it will probably contain a firearm.

So, prohibit weapon/ammo sales via internet? Oh wait, that would make it impossible to buy any sword via internet too. How about just ammos then? *exhibits hypocritic smile*

This isn't as practical, or good, of an idea as you think. Some calibers (.338, .416, .50, 5.7x28, .243, .500/.470/.375 nitro, etc.) you simply aren't likely to find at any random gun store. While some may have a dozen rounds, or a package of 20, if one was aiming for a long day at the range for some R&R shooting targets at long distances, then chances are they're going to be cut short by running out of ammo if their uncommon ammo type simply isn't available at their local gun store.

Not to mention more popular rounds, .223, 9mm, 12 gauge, etc., are available at gun stores by the tens of thousands and it isn't uncommon for somebody to come in and purchase a box of 440 or 880 at a time, sometimes multiple boxes. You would be surprised just how little ammo 1000 rounds really is.

what happened to the shooter is he in jail for life??????

He'll likely get life. In Texas they'd slap him with the needle and fast track him there, but alas, he's not here.

 
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