ForumsWEPRJainism- Is it too much?

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masterperson
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masterperson
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Post your opinion here. Jains wear a mask to try to not breathe in animals in the air. They carry a mop, to sweep small bugs away, so they won't step and kill them. And of course they're vegan. Is this too much?

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
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No, not all Jains, but only the most devoted carry out those. Many just stop at the diet level and a general mindset of non violence.

Why would Jainism be too much or excessive? It's more mellow and benign by the standards of religion; like many Oriental religions it's more prone to skepticism, always a plus point.

314d1
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314d1
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No, not all Jains, but only the most devoted carry out those. Many just stop at the diet level and a general mindset of non violence.

Why would Jainism be too much or excessive? It's more mellow and benign by the standards of religion; like many Oriental religions it's more prone to skepticism, always a plus point.



While it may not do as much harm to others, it does harm to themselves. It is hardly logical to do many of the things that they do, from WIkipidia it sounds like they do things like filter water to avoid harming things that may be in it, in excessive ways. Their monks do what he said they do, like sweeping the ground before they walk in order to not hurt insects and not eating root vegetables. Many of those traditions are a bit excessive for those who carry them out excessively.
StDrake
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Too much? Nah. Meet one and tell him - he's still killing plants.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Meet one and tell him - he's still killing plants.

Nope, that's why they don't eat roots. They only eat non-vital parts, such as leaves or berries.
greenpeople2007
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greenpeople2007
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I've been to a monastery, they are actually incredibly nice and down to earth. They don't seem to be overly malnourished. I don't see how that's too much. Also, areas of Asia have very very poor water quality, so super filtering your water makes sense. The whole roots thing, that is strange, but I don't eat potatoes so who am I to judge.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Also, areas of Asia have very very poor water quality, so super filtering your water makes sense.

Maybe the notion of karma came from things like that? Things people did without knowing the real reason, but knew that it was better, and then turned into a tradition or ritual or whatever.

At first I thought the OP talking about those people living in cast systems in India or wherever that is, not breathing in insects because they think that would make them impure or whatever.. which of course is ridiculous since it discriminates the other 'casts'. This Jainism however doesn't seem particularly harmful.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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While it may not do as much harm to others, it does harm to themselves. It is hardly logical to do many of the things that they do, from WIkipidia it sounds like they do things like filter water to avoid harming things that may be in it, in excessive ways. Their monks do what he said they do, like sweeping the ground before they walk in order to not hurt insects and not eating root vegetables. Many of those traditions are a bit excessive for those who carry them out excessively.


How is this even excessive? And even if it is, how is it even harmful?
314d1
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How is this even excessive? And even if it is, how is it even harmful?


Going out of your way to not harm anything that could even remotely considered "Living" is excessive by any definition. If someone spends five hours rearranging a bookshelf, that is excessive. It is harmful by limiting their diet, in the physical since. It must be difficult for someone to live their life like a paranoid man, in the other since, it will harm them in that way. Not eating meat is fine, not eating plants that may be classified as alive is excessive. Trying not to kill things is fine, sweeping every step you take is excessive.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Going out of your way to not harm anything that could even remotely considered "Living" is excessive by any definition. If someone spends five hours rearranging a bookshelf, that is excessive. It is harmful by limiting their diet, in the physical since. It must be difficult for someone to live their life like a paranoid man, in the other since, it will harm them in that way. Not eating meat is fine, not eating plants that may be classified as alive is excessive. Trying not to kill things is fine, sweeping every step you take is excessive.


It is certainly excessive by our norms, but not by theirs. Not all Jains do this, most stop at the first few stages of their path; only ascetics go the full way.
314d1
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314d1
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It is certainly excessive by our norms, but not by theirs. Not all Jains do this, most stop at the first few stages of their path; only ascetics go the full way.


Do you judge someone on their own norms, or by the norms of your culture? Last I checked, I judge people based on an American view.

While "most" of them stop there, many don't and become excessive with it. Or are they just to be ignored?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Do you judge someone on their own norms, or by the norms of your culture? Last I checked, I judge people based on an American view.

While "most" of them stop there, many don't and become excessive with it. Or are they just to be ignored?


I judge them by my own cultural views, and no I don't find it excessive. I've accepted much more excessive practices then this one. Body piercing, fire walking, or the infamous kowtowing journey for Buddhists. Not stepping on Joss sticks, not wearing certain types of clothes on certain days, a month long fast, not speaking certain words at any time. It's part of my culture.

As for those who carry on, no. My culture teaches me to be more open minded and accepting of such practices.
314d1
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I judge them by my own cultural views, and no I don't find it excessive. I've accepted much more excessive practices then this one. Body piercing, fire walking, or the infamous kowtowing journey for Buddhists. Not stepping on Joss sticks, not wearing certain types of clothes on certain days, a month long fast, not speaking certain words at any time. It's part of my culture.


Those are all temporary. Body piercings only hurt for so long, fire walking is just a trick. I don't know much about the kowtowing thing, but that sounds insane too. The difference with this is that it is only temporary, to an extent of the harmful effects, while the monks of this religion practice these excessive things every day, making them worse in that extent, yes?

I know that many religions have strange rituals, like in the west Catholics can't eat meat on Wednesdays and Jews can't eat pork and all that, but this is excessive to the extreme. I guess the only thing that I can think off off the top of my head that would be close in the west would be the Amish, and I think that they are excessive too.

As for those who carry on, no. My culture teaches me to be more open minded and accepting of such practices.


Being open minded and accepting is all well and good, but no progress can be made when things are not scrutinized and jabbed at. The practices are excessive, and there is no reason not to say such.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Being open minded and accepting is all well and good, but no progress can be made when things are not scrutinized and jabbed at. The practices are excessive, and there is no reason not to say such.


I don't see how this puts Jains at a disadvantage. The core tenet of Jainism is to be open minded and pluralistic, to accept truth from anywhere. That is not excessive.
sensanaty
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It may be extreme to you, someone with a viewpoint from a western country, but for these men and women who practice all of this, it isn't. If you were to live somewhere in Asia for a little longer, you'd notice many strange things they do, many rituals that seem pointless to you. For example, in Bali (where I currently am living) they have a festival, or party, or anything of the sort every second day. Most of these have to do with their culture. One day of every year, they have a day where no sound is allowed to be produced, and no light may be seen on the streets. On this one day, the entire island of Bali becomes a ghost town. No one is allowed to exit their homes. To you, it may seem extreme. But not for these people.

You cannot say what is extreme or not, because everyone will think of something differently. Westerners think one thing, while Easterners think another about certain things. No one is right in this argument.

314d1
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I don't see how this puts Jains at a disadvantage. The core tenet of Jainism is to be open minded and pluralistic, to accept truth from anywhere. That is not excessive.


I am not saying that is excessive. I am saying the insane things that they do, like sweeping off their tracks to avoid stepping on bugs or not eating root vegetables is extreme. If they where truly open minded, wouldn't they have considered a better diet and that the life they live is filled with insane ceremonies?

It may be extreme to you, someone with a viewpoint from a western country, but for these men and women who practice all of this, it isn't. If you were to live somewhere in Asia for a little longer, you'd notice many strange things they do, many rituals that seem pointless to you. For example, in Bali (where I currently am living) they have a festival, or party, or anything of the sort every second day. Most of these have to do with their culture. One day of every year, they have a day where no sound is allowed to be produced, and no light may be seen on the streets. On this one day, the entire island of Bali becomes a ghost town. No one is allowed to exit their homes. To you, it may seem extreme. But not for these people.

You cannot say what is extreme or not, because everyone will think of something differently. Westerners think one thing, while Easterners think another about certain things. No one is right in this argumen


You judge people based on your culture, or you would not be able to judge them at all like you are doing. Hitler was bad in most people's views because he committed genocide, but the Nazis think he was good. I can say "Hitler was an evil man" and I will be correct, despite the fact that from a different cultural perspective he would be considered good. The fact that there are several perspectives on something does not mean you can't argue it.
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