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2016 Obama's America

Posted Sep 15, '12 at 10:16pm

EnigmaX

EnigmaX

100 posts

His main point too was of Romney and the Republicans who are much more hawkish, such as supporting the strike against Iran.

Then whats the red line? Or do you think Iran should be allowed to procede in the face of 'sanctions' which do nothing to actually stop the enrichment process.

Evangelicals have just as crazy beliefs as them.

As gynecologists? What do you people have against female reproductive health?

Americas has the highest rare of citizens believing angels exist, and that when Rapture comes, they will be whisked away naked

into heaven.

And this is relevant how, exactly?

The conservative right has moved more and more towards it's religious brethren; Bush receives thousands of angry letters from them after he told Sharon to pull out his tanks, because they viewed it as a religious matter

Proof much?.

Passing such a crooked law was easy with all the corruption in Washington.

The purpose of the law was to help senior citins keep more of their money since their only other income is social security checks. A rather noble cause, I'd say.

Absolutely, a weasel is a weasel.

Then would you still have those feeliings if you knew that Obama was one of them. According to Forbes, Obama's net wealth is 6 million, which places him in the top 1% of wealth in the US.

Someone must have promised him lots of money for the deal.

But he wouldn't be able to accept it, since there are inter-governmental corruption watchdogs, as well as private organisations.

Religious zealots which pays the Tea Party (another terrorist organization) to push for fake Christians to become senators who will shove their idiotic beliefs in peoples throat.

How is the Tea Party a terrorist organisation? What acts have they done to inspire physical fear in someone? Fake Christians becoming senators? What are you talking about?

Their Agendas and beliefs are almost the same except for the bombing part.

So you're saying that the Tea Party wants to impose Sharia Law? lawlz

I don't know where EnigmaX got the idea that the US attacked Afghanistan for their oil. :)

From you.

You said the US invaded Arab nations for their oil.
Iraq is an Arab nation, and Afghanistan has significant Arab regions.
So according to you, Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded for their oil.

 

Posted Sep 15, '12 at 11:07pm

SSTG

SSTG

10,988 posts

Knight

But he wouldn't be able to accept it, since there are inter-governmental corruption watchdogs, as well as private organisations.

They don't do a very good job.

So according to you, Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded for their oil.

You're good at twisting words, you should become politician. All you have to do is improve your skill in corruption and you're in business.

How is the Tea Party a terrorist organisation? What acts have they done to inspire physical fear in someone? Fake Christians becoming senators? What are you talking about?

Anyone with common sense would fear those weirdos knowing what they're capable of. What's next, Pat Robertson for president?
The thought of it makes me want to jump off a bridge.
What's physical fear? Never heard of it. Did you mean mental fear?

 

Posted Sep 16, '12 at 1:21am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,006 posts

Knight

Then whats the red line? Or do you think Iran should be allowed to procede in the face of 'sanctions' which do nothing to actually stop the enrichment process.

Sanctions are already taking their toll on Iran's economy. From Iran's point of view; they are surrounded by enemies, that's why they're developing nukes. Iran lets in UN inspectors at any rate. And the Israeli and US chief of staffs have already issued statements that Iran is a rational actor and that stokes shouldnt be allowed.

As gynecologists? What do you people have against female reproductive health?

I didn't say about female health. Where do you get the idea from? They do have queer ideas on what feminism is though.

And this is relevant how, exactly?

SSTG was giving an example of how crazy these people are; clouding policies with religion, a reason why people dislike them and why they should not be allowed into power.

Proof much?.

George Monbiot's Guardian article " Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power"

 

Posted Sep 16, '12 at 3:03am

SSTG

SSTG

10,988 posts

Knight

@nichodemus, I must admit that you're patient. I usually give up when a conversation leads nowhere. Who knows, you might convince one of them eventually. :)

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 10:20am

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

What's with Americans, "Patriotism" and not stepping down for once? And people wonder why they have such an ugly rap worldwide, and why we constantly parody "patriotic" Americans.

I respect Asia and its heritage, but America is country founded on  Enlightenment principles, and I am happy to follow through with that. This country was founded with pride, and I don't see why we should be ashamed of our capitalistic and democratic beliefs. Who gives a **** about reputation? Caring about your reputation shows singly how weak you are. If you're going to do something, do it with courage. Foreign policy is a little different from true work, I know, but if we are a work hard, get stuff done, competitive society, why should we act like peacekeepers and friends to all the nations around us? Speak softly, and carry a big gun.

I know, I know, cheesy 'be yourself' kind of statement, but truly. If America was worried about reputation, they probably would have stuck with the British back in 1770. Now the Executive Branch of the United States Government is one of the most powerful positions in the world.

I hear a lot of business is returning to the US now that China has raising prices. It's actually cheaper to manufacture here in the US than in China now.

Also, I already mentioned that I don't follow Bush religiously, or at all. I don't know why you keep getting that idea.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 10:43am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,006 posts

Knight

I respect Asia and its heritage, but America is country founded on  Enlightenment principles, and I am happy to follow through with that. This country was founded with pride, and I don't see why we should be ashamed of our capitalistic and democratic beliefs. Who gives a **** about reputation? Caring about your reputation shows singly how weak you are. If you're going to do something, do it with courage. Foreign policy is a little different from true work, I know, but if we are a work hard, get stuff done, competitive society, why should we act like peacekeepers and friends to all the nations around us? Speak softly, and carry a big gun.

It's not like other nations haven't been following such Enlightenment Ideals after all these years. All nations are founded with pride; national holidays and symbols attest to that. That is fine and dandy, Americans, just like other citizens feel proud of their nations.

Yet this decreasing and stained reputation IS a cause for concern. For years America had the goodwill of the world, that was partially why cooperation after WWII over the liberalization of the economic system occurred. It was partially why America was able to lead the Coalition against Iraq twice. Foreign policy works around courting such a goodwill to prevent frosting in relations; butting into issues with nothing but rambo bravado is a sure fire way of inciting hate and distrust; a situation that has led to the huge mess in ME for America. Does reputation matter? Yes. America used to be taken as the beacon of hope for the millions of impoverished, as a lighthouse of freedom and democracy. This light is fast fading, along with America's power.

If America was worried about reputation, they probably would have stuck with the British back in 1770. Now the Executive Branch of the United States Government is one of the most powerful positions in the world.

It wasn't a matter of ''reputation''. It was a matter of overthrowing a tyrannical monarchy, and to secure independence for a nation. Two ideas, not one.

I know, but if we are a work hard, get stuff done, competitive society, why should we act like peacekeepers and friends to all the nations around us? Speak softly, and carry a big gun.

Ever since the Monroe Doctrine was replaced by the Truman Doctrine and subsequent policies, America has essentially replaced its centuries old isolationist policies. They retreated after WWI, but they didn't after WWII, seeing the disaster the world collapsed into during the in between years. America today, since the forties sees its security and prosperity rightfully tied with that of the world's. With the increasing economic integration, this is ever more salient and crucial; yet without goodwill, America will not be able to maintain such goals.

Businesses are certainly returning, but the vast majority are remaining in China, because of China's economic comparative advantage in labour intensive, low skilled manufacturing. America has much much more to do to get back into shape.

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 12:56pm

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

It's not like other nations haven't been following such Enlightenment Ideals after all these years. All nations are founded with pride; national holidays and symbols attest to that. That is fine and dandy, Americans, just like other citizens feel proud of their nations.

Aye. It just sounded like you were attested to patriotism.

But is it really as much of a problem of tarnished reputation as established willpower? Americans are fat and lazy, yeah. Ironically, most of the idiots of our nation are the tourists.

I don't really know how the US might look in other countries. Even while I was in China, we mostly saw us as being 'that group', being photogenic and all that fun stuff. If anything, we saw Americanized Beijing. I never really got a grasp of the view of Americans in China other than what Americans told us what our reputation might be in China, which isn't all that reliable. I did hear a good bit about respecting a country's traditions and not being the exception and looking like an idiot, but I get that not every American traveler understands that. I heard a lot of relevant stories, haha... During the trip, while approaching Tienanmen square, we decided to wave China's flag and march in line. We still probably looked like idiots...

Does reputation matter? Yes. America used to be taken as the beacon of hope for the millions of impoverished, as a lighthouse of freedom and democracy. This light is fast fading, along with America's power.

What do you see as the cause of this problem?

It wasn't a matter of ''reputation''. It was a matter of overthrowing a tyrannical monarchy, and to secure independence for a nation. Two ideas, not one.

I was saying, if they were worrying about reputation at that time, they would have stayed with Great Britain at that time since they were so powerful, though point taken at independence. Indeed, reputation was not an issue.

Mm.

I don't even remember why I brought up the last point... Ah, well, I suppose it brings a bit of 'necessary' irrelevance to the conversation. :P

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 1:33pm

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,006 posts

Knight

I don't really know how the US might look in other countries. Even while I was in China, we mostly saw us as being 'that group', being photogenic and all that fun stuff. If anything, we saw Americanized Beijing. I never really got a grasp of the view of Americans in China other than what Americans told us what our reputation might be in China, which isn't all that reliable. I did hear a good bit about respecting a country's traditions and not being the exception and looking like an idiot, but I get that not every American traveler understands that. I heard a lot of relevant stories, haha... During the trip, while approaching Tienanmen square, we decided to wave China's flag and march in line. We still probably looked like idiots...

You need to visit the non coastal areas and away from Beijing to get the real sense of what the Chinese think. Those are too cosmopolitan and global looking.

What do you see as the cause of this problem?

American intervention in just about all foreign affairs which leads people to feel they are busy body bullies. Whether they are or not is irrelevant for people.

What was the thread about again?! O.0

 

Posted Sep 17, '12 at 10:48pm

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

You need to visit the non coastal areas and away from Beijing to get the real sense of what the Chinese think. Those are too cosmopolitan and global looking.

Yeah, I heard that a lot, and I truly wanted to. Chengdu was the closest I got to spending a lot of time in more non-tourist areas, though the area I was in was an international community. The only other time I got close to the more rural areas was when we visited the Great Wall, which was still aimed a lot toward tourism. We got to see a bit more natural China at that time, though it wasn't very much.

American intervention in just about all foreign affairs which leads people to feel they are busy body bullies. Whether they are or not is irrelevant for people.

Aye. We need to not be involved, but still not be ignorant of other country's existences. Be prepared, but not be trigger-happy.

What was the thread about again?! O.0

It was about how easy it is for us to get off-track about politics and economics and foreign policy.

Or was it about clumsy Americans? I forget...

 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 5:19pm

EnigmaX

EnigmaX

100 posts

They don't do a very good job.

Perhaps you could show me some examples of widespread corruption within the US Federal Government then?

You're good at twisting words, you should become politician. All you have to do is improve your skill in corruption and you're in business.

If I give you a PO Box, could you start sending me checks? :)

Anyone with common sense would fear those weirdos knowing what they're capable of

Which would be... But what about the Occupy Protestors? Seeing as they have a similar means as the Tea Party, I assume you detrst them just as much? After all, they do get arrested in droves.

Also, you haven't answered my question regarding Obama being in the 1%.

Sanctions are already taking their toll on Iran's economy. From Iran's point of view; they are surrounded by enemies, that's why they're developing nukes. Iran lets in UN inspectors at any rate. And the Israeli and US chief of staffs have already issued statements that Iran is a rational actor and that stokes shouldnt be allowed.

But sanctions have no affect on the nuclear process. If anything, it encourages the development of nuclear weapons since the weapons could be used as a bargaining tool in the removal of the sanctions.

Care to link to these statements? Because a recent BBC article I read had Netanyahu urging the US to declare a red line. Likewise, news organizations (BBC, CNN, FOX) have all stated in the past months reporting on this that neither the US nor Israel have taken the strike option off the table.

I didn't say about female health. Where do you get the idea from? They do have queer ideas on what feminism is though.

SSTG seemed to be talking about it earlier; argumentum ad ridiculum, if you will.

I wouldn't know, to be honest. I'm rather lacking in the parts needed to merit meeting one. If you know what I mean.

SSTG was giving an example of how crazy these people are; clouding policies with religion, a reason why people dislike them and why they should not be allowed into power.

The US is a representative republic, and thus any citizen can can run for office provided they meet the legal qualifications. A person's ability to take power is thus based on their ability to motivate others to vote for them. If you don't like a certain candidate, don't vote for them. If the candidate wins 'fair and square' then it's the will of the people.

 
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