ForumsWEPRWhat will happen when the world's armies run out of oil?

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Masterforger
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Masterforger
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I've been pondering this question for a while. Title says it all. What will happen when there is no oil for the world's militaries? I mean an effective lack of oil, where nothing can be run, and there are no reserves, and no secret caches to be found. No oil, period.

I especially wonder what will happen to the air forces and navies.

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Newer forms of energy sources. The U.S. Department of Defense plans to open up 16 million acres of its land for renewable energy development, which it hopes will create a boom of solar, wind and geothermal projects and provide clean power to military bases. The military is keenly interested in creating âmicrogridsâ for its bases. A microgrid is a mostly self-sufficient base of power generation and storage, which allows for banking the electricity (using batteries or other technologies) for later use. A microgrid can still be connected to the regular electric grid, but it will take power from local utilities only when its own power plants arenât able to generate enough to meet the demand.

Masterforger
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Masterforger
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Shepherd

A military moves more then it stays in place, Signor Nich. The ships, the planes, the tanks, the trucks, what about them?

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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in short term, they will be back in stone age but in longer term, they find new resources.

partydevil
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partydevil
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1st the oil will not instantly be gone.
usa alone has a few billion liters in reserve.

the transport systems will have to be turned into other types of energy consuming machines.
i can assume that a electric tank will work even better then the 1 used now for example. it doesn't have to be fast it only needs allot of power. and a soundless tank can be used more tactically then 1 whit a v16 motor in it.
and the electric energy we can get from the moon in the form of helium-3. what has more power then nuclear energy and is a 100% clean

Masterforger
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Masterforger
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1st the oil will not instantly be gone.
usa alone has a few billion liters in reserve.


Read the full OP.

I mean an effective lack of oil, where nothing can be run, and there are no reserves, and no secret caches to be found. No oil, period.


Is it that hard? Two tiny paragraphs?
zakyman
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zakyman
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you should play some dodgeball i bet your great in it.


Ad hominem. Uncalled for.

I think that this actually might be somewhat of a cataclysm for world peace, if not at least peace on a "global" scale. By that, I mean that the US couldn't attack...Mongolia (just an example) easily because of the extreme distance. However, there could still be regional wars such as between Pakistan and India, and Canada and the US.
314d1
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314d1
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Assuming it somehow magically ran out, they would simply use different fuel. If anything, it would give America a huge advantage, as well as other large, rich nations. For example, the military of America, with a budget larger then most countries, could buy a lot of corn to use as ethanol. While the air force, a huge advantage to America, would not be able to run on ethanol, small ships and tanks could potentially run on it large supplies on it, especially with all the research power the armies have. Then the large nations in their allies with money and land to get stuff from, like America once again, would be able to use some vehicles, while small nations (Like the ones America has been fighting in the last fifty years) would not be able to keep up with the huge fuel producing powers of the large countries, making it essentially "People armed with tanks against people who aren't".

So in short, we will solve the problem the way we solve all life's problems. With alcohol. And the west (Assuming the large countries with enough excess food give a large supply of fuel to their allies) will have a great advantage over places like the middle east.

Masterforger
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Masterforger
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Well, to keep huge militaries, like the U.S', going on biofuel, you would have to reap many countries' harvests, or turn nearly all land into farmland, if you want your armies to work and have your people fed.
Or choose between;
Give crops to the citizens and revert many aspects to the Age of Sail
OR
Take crops from citizens, feed engines, and keep your massive army going, albeit with mutinous citizens.

EnigmaX
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EnigmaX
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For some odd reason,
you all sound dumb today, or maybe high.


Look in the mirror my friend.

Assuming the OP's idea of oil encompasses all fossil fuels, then most immediately nations like Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and Russia would take a significant economic hit seeing as they all export oil and natural gas in significant amounts. China could go either way, as many of its foreign investments in energy are matched with precious metals, etc.

Lithium, or some other metal, would become the next oil I believe. It doesnt matter how much energy you can generate if you dont have an effective means of storing it. So an technological advance in batteries, and thus the materials needed to produce them, would be needed if any electricity-based alternative is to be a viable alternative.

I don't really see 'the end of oil' as a bad thing. Because it really opens up the door for a whole new realm of scientific advancement. Necessity, after all, is the mother of invention.
kirbydgthemaster
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kirbydgthemaster
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I would think you'd be more concerned about the people with out oil... if armies can't bomb each other any more, I don't think that's so bad.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Corn is definitely not a viable option on long terms, for obvious reasons. There are however more and more experiences with algae produced fuel, that might replace fossil fuel.

I don't really see 'the end of oil' as a bad thing. Because it really opens up the door for a whole new realm of scientific advancement. Necessity, after all, is the mother of invention.

Especially when the military is involved. If the military needs fuel, it will get fuel.
314d1
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314d1
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Well, to keep huge militaries, like the U.S', going on biofuel, you would have to reap many countries' harvests, or turn nearly all land into farmland, if you want your armies to work and have your people fed.
Or choose between;
Give crops to the citizens and revert many aspects to the Age of Sail
OR
Take crops from citizens, feed engines, and keep your massive army going, albeit with mutinous citizens.


If ALL of the oil in the world magically dissipated, and bio fuel was the option for both the military and civilian populations, then it would make since that America would turn most of it's farms into corn farms. After all, corn would be worth it's wait in gold, farming mostly corn would allow for both food to be feed and some extra for necessary transits. Why wouldn't that happen?

Besides, civilians can use anything from coal to electricity, from trains to cars, in an emergency it could easily change. The military is a bit more limited in what it can use efficiently, bio fuel would be one of the best options in this scenario, especially considering that the US military has almost limitless funds and money makes people grow corn.

As Hiahaia said, if the military wants fuel, it will get fuel.

Corn is definitely not a viable option on long terms, for obvious reasons. There are however more and more experiences with algae produced fuel, that might replace fossil fuel.


I didn't say "Then they live off corn the rest of their days" I said "If they immediately go to corn, then they have a great advantage over nations that can not immediately replace their war vehicles.". Small nations like Iraq and Iran are not going to be able to run any vehicles, really, so if we could just go to our enemies areas in small vehicles, we would easily defeat them. Regardless of sustainability, it would be simple to take advantage of your enemies weakness.
EmperorPalpatine
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The Navy is already trying to switch all their ships to [url=http://articles.cnn.com/2000-07-25/nature/electric.ships.enn_1_electric-drive-fuel-cells-advanced-power-systems?_s=PM:NATURE]electric and mechanical[url] energy instead of diesel. It won't change much for the military if oil runs out. By then, all vehicles will have changed to more efficient power sources.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Electric and mechanical. Forgot the slash.

thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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Look in the mirror my friend.

Assuming the OP's idea of oil encompasses all fossil fuels, then most immediately nations like Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and Russia would take a significant economic hit seeing as they all export oil and natural gas in significant amounts. China could go either way, as many of its foreign investments in energy are matched with precious metals, etc.

Lithium, or some other metal, would become the next oil I believe. It doesnt matter how much energy you can generate if you dont have an effective means of storing it. So an technological advance in batteries, and thus the materials needed to produce them, would be needed if any electricity-based alternative is to be a viable alternative.

I don't really see 'the end of oil' as a bad thing. Because it really opens up the door for a whole new realm of scientific advancement. Necessity, after all, is the mother of invention.

I was referring to party devil and master forger.
An advice, don't take every thing as addressed to you you'll live longer.
Using corn for fuel sounds weird although applicable.
but american military power will be effected as they will not be able to rely on their air force.
So, may be they will have tanks, but others will have anti tank weapons.
In short American military will become equal to anyother military.
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