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Issues with Islam

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 10:11pm

Santi_

Santi_

444 posts

I'm sure most people have heard of the ever infamous video, whose pilot was put onto Youtube, disgracing Islam.
Personally, I have not watched this video, and am not sure if there is another thread on this topic.

So, what is your opinion?
How should the U.S. react to having one of it's ambassoders and several others murdered?
Should the people who posted the video have it removed, fined, or given other punishments?
Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

(I am personally not one for religion, but if a person has devoted their life to it, it must mean quite a large deal to them)

 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 10:17pm

nichodemus

nichodemus

11,879 posts

Knight

Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

I have almost no issue with Islam, growing up in a predominantly Muslim region. My only issue is with Muslims who take it to the extremes and wage a war against Infidels. Which is the same reason why I'm against all extremists groups. Different religion, same reason.

This is directed towards people who idolise freedom, and feel they have all sorts of right bundled in with it:

When it borders on hate speech, why should one's freedom of speech be allowed? Don't give me the ridiculous reason that it's a personal freedom and hence it needs to be allowed. You're infringing on the freedom of the person you're slurring, so what makes your freedom more important and acceptable?

 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 11:03pm

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

I think back in WW2 (correct me if I'm wrong) 'Uncle Sam' punished people for loose talk, which may have revealed the US' plans to other countries.

Toward the events, obviously blind hate toward the speaker was rather, well, blind, and shows the lack of knowledge of the Middle East and religious intolerance. Obviously, if you believe one religion, you don't believe another, but unless your religion is intolerance you should learn to at least respect religions and the individuals decision to rationalize their beliefs. Disgust of all Muslims is a bit irrational, as it accounts for a majority of the population in Asia and not all Muslims wish death to the US (I know a few friendly Muslims myself).

Funny how all the outspoken people account for everyone of their label... I don't wonder if all of the Christians are labeled ignorant hypocrites who share pictures of 'God' on Facebook and write horrible poetry.

When it borders on hate speech, why should one's freedom of speech be allowed? Don't give me the ridiculous reason that it's a personal freedom and hence it needs to be allowed. You're infringing on the freedom of the person you're slurring, so what makes your freedom more important and acceptable?

I feel like any speech should be rational and reasonable, and not just hating on a generalization. There's not any way to really silence the idiots without silencing wise, so either you must silence both or encourage people to reason a lot, a lot. That still doesn't ensure that the hate speech will be minimized, but it may or may not solve the problem.

Surely, criticism is never a bad thing (it's more how it's received) (also, separate from straight-up insults, but that's just plain ignorance), but if you're making a generalization that surely not all of the labelled fit under, then there's a problem. There may be reasons, but they're based on outspoken events that don't account for the whole of the population - sort of like the video: I'm certain that not everybody feels the same way as the director felt (I didn't watch it either :P). In the same way, if the radical Islamists were actually attacking the Embassies because of the video, they were making a generalization that all Americans must think like that, which obviously isn't true, and in which case speaking out against that is sort of redundant and contradictory to the very thing they were speaking out against. I'm sort of guessing that they weren't, though, since it's probably not just coincidence that these attacks took place on 9/11 and they happened to know exactly were the ambassador was being hidden. Just a thought.

 

Posted Sep 18, '12 at 11:53pm

Skyla

Skyla

297 posts

Nichodemus hit the nail on the head.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 4:44pm

BritHennerz

BritHennerz

364 posts

Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

I believe, if you have an opinion that may offend someone, to keep it to yourself. If you wish to express it, do it in a polite, inoffensive manor, don't make a video on YouTube that is going to upset the masses. Discuss it in private with someone in a calm and collective manor without swearing or just insulting his beliefs but saying exactly why you have those beliefs and the person you discuss with is most likely going to say 'fair enough but I disagree because of this'. A friendly debate rather than an attack.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 5:24pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

I believe, if you have an opinion that may offend someone, to keep it to yourself.

I don't agree with this. I could offend someone by telling them their views are racist/bigoted/biased. Those aren't reasons for me to keep quiet, they are reasons for me to speak.

If you wish to express it, do it in a polite, inoffensive manor,

This is the key part. The initial part of the talk should not start out in an attack.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 5:33pm

Alpha791

Alpha791

651 posts

The extremists are acting like the US government endorsed the movie or something. The US government has repeatedly condemned the making of this movie and claims no part of it, yet they have decided to kill a US ambassador and attack US embassies because some idiots decided that they would call Islam stupid, and those idiots happened to live in the US. Islam isn't the cause, it's extremist morons dragging blame into places it doesn't belong.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 6:21pm

thewolf52

thewolf52

28 posts

In defense of those attacks, it can be argued that as US govrn let such an act happen on its  soil and did not stop the culprits, it has become an accomplice in that act.
So, all US govrn. officials have become legitimate targets.
Also for last ten years specially and for a century generally, US have been messing with muslims.

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 6:23pm

thewolf52

thewolf52

28 posts

So, it was the last straw on camel's back (see what I did there?)

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 6:25pm

thewolf52

thewolf52

28 posts

This is a duplicate.
I made it earlier.

 
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