ForumsWEPRIssues with Islam

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Santi_
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Santi_
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I'm sure most people have heard of the ever infamous video, whose pilot was put onto Youtube, disgracing Islam.
Personally, I have not watched this video, and am not sure if there is another thread on this topic.

So, what is your opinion?
How should the U.S. react to having one of it's ambassoders and several others murdered?
Should the people who posted the video have it removed, fined, or given other punishments?
Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

(I am personally not one for religion, but if a person has devoted their life to it, it must mean quite a large deal to them)

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Enti
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Enti
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If you hold your right to free speech so dear, we hold our prophet to be dearer and we will do what ever it takes to shut those Idiots up.


Why? Can your prophet not shut them up himself? Can you not stand people making fun of your prophet, to the point where killing them would be justified? Really, wouldn't that make you the idiot?

I am amazed that no one has attacked the culprits yet.


In a positive or negative way?

Debate and hate speech are two very different things. Debate is carefully or at least more reasonably analyzing and criticizing or arguing about something. Hate speech is what the Nazi did.


So in the law censoring everything you don't like, you are going to put a clause that says "But reasonably analyzes is still aloud. You are aloud to criticize things....except when your not!"? How do you distinguish between debate and "hate speech", especially as far as a law is concerned?

It doesn't have the power to stop them from debating and believing in it. It has the power to stop people from degrading homosexuals via hate speech.


Yes it does. How do you distinguish between debating and hate speech, again? I can't think of any way that you could tell the difference, especially in writing a law.

Actually it was ab example to show how government intervention is good at times. Culture and tradition dictate racism; the government put an end to this with the final nail in the coffin.


Culture and tradition dictate the government, two. What Noname was saying is when the people where racist, the government was racist. Now that the people are not racist, the government is not racist. So passing a law like this would mean the people would already not be racist...
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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So in the law censoring everything you don't like, you are going to put a clause that says "But reasonably analyzes is still aloud. You are aloud to criticize things....except when your not!"? How do you distinguish between debate and "hate speech", especially as far as a law is concerned?


European nations have done it. It is impossible to legislate all language, but they have broadly done so. Claiming the Prophet is gay, violent and a warmonger isn't debate clearly.


Yes it does. How do you distinguish between debating and hate speech, again? I can't think of any way that you could tell the difference, especially in writing a law.


I think I quoted it earlier, if not it's in the article GoM put up.

Culture and tradition dictate the government, two. What Noname was saying is when the people where racist, the government was racist. Now that the people are not racist, the government is not racist. So passing a law like this would mean the people would already not be racist...


And what my example showed is no. SA was a place ruled by white power; the government recognized this was impossible in the long run without Ren more bloodshed and military rule; it phased out apartheid despite opposition from almost all political groups which had power.
zakyman
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zakyman
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If you hold your right to free speech so dear, we hold our prophet to be dearer and we will do what ever it takes to shut those Idiots up.


Punisher, people like you are the reason that these stereotypes are perpetuated. If I drew a stick figure, and named it Muhammed, than you would be calling for Muslims to attack me. And why do you attack innocent people? The US Ambassador in Libya had NOTHING to do with the video that started all of this. Did he deserve to die simply because he was an agent of a government which protects such acts? And what about an average American. Would you kill some random Joe walking down the street as revenge for the cartoon?
DSM
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DSM
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And why do you attack innocent people?


We dont, the government actually trying to stop them.

The US Ambassador in Libya had NOTHING to do with the video that started all of this. Did he deserve to die simply because he was an agent of a government which protects such acts?


He didn't, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the one who made that video who is in fault, in the poor peoples death.
Muslims trying to stop these demonstrations, but yet the USA doesn't do anything to stop meaningless insults/hate speech. So basically the USA is in the fault of those deaths. You people say some wise words to Muslims and tell them to correct themselves, yet you dont correct yourselves and wont listen when other gives you something to think about.

And what about an average American. Would you kill some random Joe walking down the street as revenge for the cartoon?


You americans dont seems to have a problem insulting people for no reason, or killing and discriminating somebody for something they didn't do. So I find it ironic when americans trying to teach somebody to behave.
rafterman
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rafterman
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He didn't, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the one who made that video who is in fault, in the poor peoples death.

No, it was the ones who did the murdering who are at fault.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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Why? Can your prophet not shut them up himself? Can you not stand people making fun of your prophet, to the point where killing them would be justified? Really, wouldn't that make you the idiot?

If this makes me an Idiot, so be it
In a positive or negative way?

In a negative way.
Punisher, people like you are the reason that these stereotypes are perpetuated. If I drew a stick figure, and named it Muhammed, than you would be calling for Muslims to attack me. And why do you attack innocent people? The US Ambassador in Libya had NOTHING to do with the video that started all of this. Did he deserve to die simply because he was an agent of a government which protects such acts? And what about an average American. Would you kill some random Joe walking down the street as revenge for the cartoon?

You should read thewolf52's post a few pages back in answer to this.
In this world no one gives you something, you have to take it by force.
British govrn. made blasphemy laws after Ghazi alam din killed a blasphemer.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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US govr says the bounty on the film maker's head is "inflammatory and inappropriate".
And what he did is not?

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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US govr says the bounty on the film maker's head is "inflammatory and inappropriate".
And what he did is not?

So what? Let the film maker be judged as he deserves, instead of trying hard to escalate the situation. One man's mistake doesn't legitimate yours.

Besides, we should make a difference between mere demonstrations, and attacks. Many muslims are demonstrating for their religious dignity, but don't harm anyone. Some radical factions are actually attacking, or provoking attacks, on the embassies. In Benghasi, Libya, people have chased some militia away and the government has taken the opportunity to become active against what they call 'illegitimate militia' they suspect of being at the origin of the attacks. Most citizens are not stupid, they know that attacking embassies isn't the right way, so stop giving the impression that all Muslims want us Westerners all dead for a caricature.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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Besides, we should make a difference between mere demonstrations, and attacks. Many muslims are demonstrating for their religious dignity, but don't harm anyone. Some radical factions are actually attacking, or provoking attacks, on the embassies. In Benghasi, Libya, people have chased some militia away and the government has taken the opportunity to become active against what they call 'illegitimate militia' they suspect of being at the origin of the attacks. Most citizens are not stupid, they know that attacking embassies isn't the right way, so stop giving the impression that all Muslims want us Westerners all dead for a caricature.

They don't want you westreners dead,
They want you to make anti _blasphemy laws
toemas
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toemas
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Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.


The extremist Muslims openly say they want to kill Christians the west and other infidels, do they usually get nailed for it? No they donât if you go on YouTube or FB you can find plenty of vids. And comments about destroying Christians and America and Israel. and America and Israel does not riot and kill because of it!
ps i think Egypt filed criminal charges against the makers of innocent of Islam film
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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The extremist Muslims openly say they want to kill Christians the west and other infidels, do they usually get nailed for it? No they donât if you go on YouTube or FB you can find plenty of vids. And comments about destroying Christians and America and Israel. and America and Israel does not riot and kill because of it!

Have you ever heard those extremist muslims cussing jesus or moses?
rafterman
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rafterman
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Have you ever heard those extremist muslims cussing jesus or moses?

They could if they wanted to because we don't murder people over things such as that.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Read all of your posts
Just wanna say
If you hold your right to free speech so dear, we hold our prophet to be dearer and we will do what ever it takes to shut those Idiots up.


If "my god wanted me to X" was a valid excuse, you can literally justify ANY crime.

Claiming the Prophet is gay, violent and a warmonger isn't debate clearly.


George W. Bush is a walking, talking, turd who stinks up everything he touches. Obama is a walking, talking, turd who stinks up everything he touches. They should both just hijack it out of the nation and live on an island together so they don't give the rest of us their AIDs.

The above - I should be allowed to say it in public. I should be allowed to say it over facebook. I should be allowed to say it in front of the white house.

He didn't, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the one who made that video who is in fault, in the poor peoples death.


No
No
No
No
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO

NO IT WASN'T.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ajonec.jpg

Muslims trying to stop these demonstrations, but yet the USA doesn't do anything to stop meaningless insults/hate speech.


**** the incompetent government. They're nothing but a bunch of ignorant vultures who wish nothing more than to self profit off of their tyrannical rule. The government is filled with disgusting, immoral, know-it-all, people who think they're better than everyone else. They should all jump off the top flood of a skyscraper.

The above paragraph is a hate speech against the government.

If someone wants to say "**** Muslims up the ***", they should have every right. If someone wants to say "All blacks should be made into slaves again", they should have that right. I will disagree with their statements and oppose such fullish opinions, but I will literally fight to protect their right to say such things.

If you can blame people expressing their freedom of speech for the death of the ambassador, then you better not ***** when America drops bombs on them flag burning, American hating, son's of *****es. (For the record, I am anti-war, but I'm making a point).

You people say some wise words to Muslims and tell them to correct themselves, yet you dont correct yourselves and wont listen when other gives you something to think about.


We tell Muslims that they should stop ****ing killing people. Atheists tell everyone that their religion is bull****.

(((())))

Now, we're talking about hate speech. Apparently hate speech should be banned because it's insulting and drives criminally insane people too kill. NEWSFLASH - THESE EXTREMISTS THREATEN TO KILL EVERYONE WHO QUESTIONS THEIR GOD. It has NOTHING to do with hate speech AT ALL, it has to do with elitist extremists who would gladly kill people for being Christian.

In this world no one gives you something, you have to take it by force.


Can one of you please leave a comment on my profile?

I will have gained a comment WITHOUT USING FORCE. The computer you're on, did you have to slit someone's throat or did you trade money for it in a non-coercive manner?

I'm going to be honest with you, you're not going to be able to shut everyone who speaks ill of your god up. That's just not going to happen. That's along the same lines of "not everyone is going to like you." You can't make such a demand in the same way those people speaking out can't force you not to worship your god.

If you believe it's okay to use force against others to get what you want, then you must believe it's okay for them to slit your throat to shut you up. That being the case, there is literally no reason to be mad when someone uses coercion. Again, your logic is deeply flawed.

They don't want you westreners dead,
They want you to make anti _blasphemy laws


You literally can't commit blasphemy for a religion you don't believe in. It's blasphemy not to worship Jesus Christ if you're a Christian, the fact you don't have laws forcing you to worship Jesus is beyond me *sarcasm*.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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You don't get it.
We don't love our prophet as you love you politicians, parents, spouse, children, your own life, freedom.
We love and respect him more then that and just as you westerners take you freedom of speech seriously, we take our profit more seriously.
You don't stop the cause yet you try to stop the effect.
GENIUS!

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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You don't get it.
We don't love our prophet as you love you politicians, parents, spouse, children, your own life, freedom.
We love and respect him more then that and just as you westerners take you freedom of speech seriously, we take our profit more seriously.
You don't stop the cause yet you try to stop the effect.
GENIUS!


The cause can be literally anything. If someone questioned your prophet using actual evidence, should they be punished?

If you love your prophet so much that you believe he wants you to kill everyone who has premarital sex, I can't touch you. Your argument is solid. When a murderer says, "God told me to kill that Jewish family", should we exile all Jews to respect that murderer's views? You're sitting in that exact same chair. You're saying we should pardon murders against those who spoke out against your prophet because "Your prophet is too holy to be insulted."
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