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Scottish Independence

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 4:30pm

BritHennerz

BritHennerz

364 posts

In the next few years the Scottish people will be given the chance to vote if they want to be independent from the UK. They will be their own country, governed by their own Government but will share the UK's services.

The Scottish claim that 90% of the UK's oil is technically theirs and they only owe 10% of the UK's debt. What economists forecast for Scotland is that their economy will boom until the petrol runs out when they will go bust.

Before they go bust, Scotland will join the EU, which sceptics say is pointless as they have just left the UK to join another union of countries. Because Scotland will go bust, the other European countries will have to bail them out which is why France, Spain and Belgium will vote to no allow them in the EU (they also have their own small islands which might want independence if Scotland does well).

There is also the issue of who will govern Scotland, if the Scottish Socialist Party or Scottish National Party take power without being voted in that wouldn't make it a democracy.

Scotland runs its own affairs already along with Wales but the big decisions that affect the whole of the UK are done in England, normally by and English Prime Minister from an English political party. That said, the previous British Prime Minister was Scottish so the other countries of the UK do get a fair chance.

What do you think? I know what I've said is a little bit biased because I don't think that Scotland should have independence, firstly because I don't think that is best for the people of Scotland and secondly because they'll take all of the oil and still use the services of the UK. But do you think Scotland should be independent?

If yes, do you think that the whole of the UK should get the chance to vote because all of the UK will be affected by Scotland leaving?

 

Posted Sep 19, '12 at 5:30pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,094 posts

The Scottish claim that 90% of the UK's oil is technically theirs and they only owe 10% of the UK's debt. What economists forecast for Scotland is that their economy will boom until the petrol runs out when they will go bust.

they can use that boom to invest in something their country can become a expert in.

Before they go bust, Scotland will join the EU, which sceptics say is pointless as they have just left the UK to join another union of countries.

the EU is very different from the UK.
in the UK scotland has nothing to say about their own land.
in the EU they have their own government.

Because Scotland will go bust, the other European countries will have to bail them out

so they go bust already befor they may even try?
why shouldn't scotland become a great nation once again?

and if scotland can keep up whit the EU demands (even latvia and estonia are able to) then their is no problem. it's not that hard, if you don't make a complete mess of your administration.

There is also the issue of who will govern Scotland, if the Scottish Socialist Party or Scottish National Party take power without being voted in that wouldn't make it a democracy.

starting a democracy is't that hard. 1st of there are elections. those elected are going to make a constitution. the constitution then has to be approved by the majority of the party's (or both party's if there are only 2) and tadaaa, democracy born.
in a country like scotland where there isn't any war going on or anything els that can keep this from happening fair. it shouldn't be that hard.

they'll take all of the oil and still use the services of the UK.

if they are going to use the service then they are going to pay for it aswell. perhaps whit that oil money.

do you think Scotland should be independent?

not to me to decide. if they get the option to and they vote yes then they should get it. keeping them from Independence after such outcome would be bad.

btw why didn't north ireland get this option? =S

If yes, do you think that the whole of the UK should get the chance to vote because all of the UK will be affected by Scotland leaving?

sure.

btw is scotland is so important for the UK. then why do you think they can't make it on their own?
seems kinda contradicting.

 

Posted Sep 20, '12 at 6:20am

zakyman

zakyman

1,588 posts

If yes, do you think that the whole of the UK should get the chance to vote because all of the UK will be affected by Scotland leaving?

No, because if one country is an unwilling partner in a relationship, they have the right to leave that relationship without another's consent. Doesn't Britain still remember 1776?

 

Posted Sep 20, '12 at 7:58am

nichodemus

nichodemus

11,884 posts

Knight

No, because if one country is an unwilling partner in a relationship, they have the right to leave that relationship without another's consent. Doesn't Britain still remember 1776?

Unlike America, this is a union which has exited for nearly 400 years; culturally, politically and socially there has been much more integration; Many Englishmen call the North home as much as the Scottish do, so would it be fair to them?

In either cases, most Scots don't want independence now. The political and cultural issues around independence are hotly debated. Yet fittingly, in the birthplace of Adam Smith economic arguments seem to weigh heaviest. Opinion polls suggest that they will determine whether or not Scots go for independence. One poll found that just 21% of Scots would favour independence if it would leave them 500 pounds a year worse off, and only 24% would vote to stay in the union even if they would be less well off sticking with Britain. Almost everyone else would vote for independence if it brought in roughly enough money to buy a new iPad, and against it if not.

In either case, the recession now would make independence perilous; A small country is more vulnerable to other shocks.

Furthermore, Britain has invested too much into Scotland to perhaps allow it to get off scot free. In 2008 the British government had to bail out Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and HBOS, Scotland's two biggest banks. At its peak, RBS's balance sheet was 13 times Scottish GDP. Edinburgh has faltered as a financial centre since, and would be hard to revive. There is a limit to how large a financial sector an independent Scotland‚Ä"a new, small economy‚Ä"could support. Mr Salmond has already rebuffed suggestions that he should take a share of RBS's ¬£187 billion of toxic assets.

 

Posted Sep 20, '12 at 2:20pm

Masterforger

Masterforger

1,633 posts

why shouldn't scotland become a great nation once again?

They were never overtly "great", per se. First they were the wild Britons that drove back the Romans, then they were the rebellious northern clans that fought against English rule, then when England had them under their thumb Scots became both sailors and soldiers in the English navies and armies. Of course, before that, during the Elizabethan times, Scotland was using the time of political intrigue to take the throne of England.
I love the Scots, but saying that they were a "great" country isn't that true. Scotland is a proud country, but England ruled the seas, held America for a time, drove back the French over the Napoleonic wars. Scotland is as much a country as England, but it can benefit from being under Britain's control.
I'm not saying to you Scottish people "don't vote to be free", and I know Scots never consider themselves Brits, which is very good. You do already have a parliament of your own, breaking off from the protection of Britain just sends you back to feudal days.

 

Posted Sep 20, '12 at 7:45pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,094 posts

They were never overtly "great", per se

the people, the culture, the landscape, the atmosphere. it's all great.
i didn't mend like they were a super power and on a world domination tour. or something like that.

anyway i didn't read more then just that line. got no time for you atm.

 

Posted Sep 20, '12 at 8:39pm

Alpha791

Alpha791

651 posts

I would like to have some extra information provided because the opening post for this was fairly biased in the favor of not letting them in. You gave only information that recommended that they shouldn't be let in the EU. Anyone wanna give a link to a better source of info on the topic?

 

Posted Sep 21, '12 at 2:55am

nichodemus

nichodemus

11,884 posts

Knight

I suggest you never post in the WEPR again if you cannot read two paragraphs.

If you don't get the meaning he is trying to convey; I.e the ''greatness'', or prominence of Scottish culture and traditions that it had in the past which made it a stand out as an independent nation, but call out on him, don't even post as well. I.e, he used the word great like ''We had a great time, it was a great place to visit'' kind of way.

 

Posted Sep 21, '12 at 5:52pm

fries

fries

93 posts

what the heck is wrong here

 

Posted Sep 22, '12 at 1:07am

nichodemus

nichodemus

11,884 posts

Knight

Mod got here.

 
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