ForumsWEPRAnarchism

133 12030
_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

I really do not think people understand what Anarchism is. I am an Anarchist myself and it is saddening to hear that people think that Anarchy is "Chaos" and "Disorder" when in reality it is the opposite. I think people have grown so attached to their governments that they depend on them to run their lives and without it there will be chaos. That's just chaos, not Anarchy. Anarchy is peace and order. Government is violence. Anyone care to add to this?
*If you are going to argue this please do not state the fact that it can not work. That is a lame argument and needs to be backed up with evidence and proof.
Thanks

  • 133 Replies
nichodemus
online
nichodemus
14,480 posts
24,880

I can see why Spaz abandoned his thread.

No, I think it's funny when people dig way too deep into how anarchism works and how it will fail and how it will succeed. What all of you failed to notice is that ALL systems fail...ALL society's fail. Anarchism is just another way of living through it all. What I think is really funny is how we never know what it has been like to live in an anarchist society yet most people in this thread WILL know...how? They won't. Can't place judgement on something that has never been implemented. I guess some people just over think it too much.


Isn't it incredulous that people can somehow "overthink" on an issue of such magnitude? It's profoundly insipid on your part if you claim as such; libraries of books on anarchism have been written and burnt yet this is overthinking?

It is true that all systems fail. Yet it is also accurate to say that certain systems we have tried as a species has led to more failure than success. I find it funny that you claim it's not a failure hypothetically just because we haven't really attempted it. Well we have, and it has been an abject failure. We have examples that share such characteristics of anarchism implemented with horrendous results. If we hold firmly to the idea that judgement shall not be passed on hypothetical systems that have never had a chance to flourish, who are you to proclaim that it will be a success, or to so casually dismiss our discussion? And that is hypocritically humorous on so many levels.

All societies to date have failed? What about the current democratic one we have been waltzing through? Or at least much of the Western world has. It has it's cracks and holes, yet to say it is a complete failure is preposterous. To claim that this (All societies fail) is reason enough to judge anarchism as a plausible success or at least to give it a try is shoddy logic that doesn't stand up.
nichodemus
online
nichodemus
14,480 posts
24,880

True that most societies have failed if we take into account the whole span of human history*.

danielo
offline
danielo
1,776 posts
660

Remmeber, the Romans Were here for almost a milenium. we still have time to see if we will be better. And even the mighty Rome had time when it seems that ending was going to be in the near future, and yet the romans got back on ther fit and rise up.
So here we are talking about a political system. only time will show if democracy is here to last, or it wont be able to stay for long. how old this system is? no more than 300 years. You can debate wher it realy started, and what is democracy. But as for now, we cant judge if it fail or not. as the prove say, only the dead see the end of the war. only by looking from the future we can say "this is when rome as falled" or "this is when france was created". Around the year of -100 BC - 100 AC, people were sure that rome going to fall. this is when all the 'rophets' and chosen ones start talking, one of them jesus, on 'the end of times' and all the fun who come with it. they felt rome going to fall. but yet they survived for more than half a milenia, and if you count the byzantine as rome, even more time. So climing now that Democracy is failing, well, its more of a Statement than a opinion. Does anarchy going to survive more in your opinion?

partydevil
offline
partydevil
5,168 posts
4,560

how old this system is? no more than 300 years.


lets look that up 1st
i think the definition : democracy is a political system in which all the members of the society have an equal share of formal political power. is spot on.
_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

Spaz, When a couple want to build a house, they dont build and then look how it look. its not a game you know, its not like "we will give you 25 years of anarchy. if it will work out, keep going. if people will starve to death or thing will jsut fall apart, well, game over. lets restart socity".


I don't think people will suffer as much as they are today. And there is no set time, stuff happens and if it does it does. Found a picture today that said "Capitalism has failed, state socialism has failed...let's try the third." (Anarchy)

Isn't it incredulous that people can somehow "overthink" on an issue of such magnitude?


Ya, I do. Please go write the rule book for Anarchism and then call it Anarchy...good luck charlie...in my head when things are over thought and analyzed too much down to the detail things tend to not work. Anarchy is...ANARCHY! LET IT HAPPEN. Its nature! There is no rule book or guide to it!

And yes, My ego talks a lot...I wish for it to succeed but I know it will fail one day. Thank you for catching my mistake :P

All societies to date have failed? What about the current democratic one we have been waltzing through?


Ya...ya it has. This isn't very democratic. In one way or another. The constitution is violated all the time. This system has failed. Wouldn't really call it waltzing unless you have a bandana wrapped around your eyes...
_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

Isn't having Jesus /God setting rules counter to the concept of anarchy?


Yes and no, anarchism isn't against all forms of authority...I know that sounds funny but people get Anarchy mixed up A LOT! And they claim that Jesus spoke of Anarchism in his days...I can't remember the verse but they don't make much sense to me...I guess it's for you to decide...then again, the Bible says to follow government and obey it...so I guess it's weird in a way.
partydevil
offline
partydevil
5,168 posts
4,560

the 4 examples i found about anarchy "ruled" territories. shows a lifespan of about 2 year.

nothing compared to democracy if you ask me.


i'm not sure atm if we can call somalia a anarchy state.
the north part (somaliland) we can't, that part has a government and is doing fairly well for itself. the rest on the other hand has no government for the last 15 year. and is ruled by pirates now.
and i think that is exactly what will happen in a anarchy society. the criminals will rule. and that sure wont make it a better place to live.

nichodemus
online
nichodemus
14,480 posts
24,880

Ya, I do. Please go write the rule book for Anarchism and then call it Anarchy...good luck charlie...in my head when things are over thought and analyzed too much down to the detail things tend to not work. Anarchy is...ANARCHY! LET IT HAPPEN. Its nature! There is no rule book or guide to it!


I don't need to write a book. All i need to do is read books on anarchism to properly discuss it. Which I have. Dissuasions are discussions. LET THEM HAPPEN. Willful ignorance at it's best.


Ya...ya it has. This isn't very democratic. In one way or another. The constitution is violated all the time. This system has failed. Wouldn't really call it waltzing unless you have a bandana wrapped around your eyes...


If we have to adhere to suh a strict yardstick then most of the history of modern democracy will be a failure. If we look at the general picture, Thr democratic system and foundation has been strong and thorough. It has been drilled into people, just look at the rabid responses to the campaigns, voter turnout and the lot.

Also, the democratic system isn't wholly comprised of America and it's beloved constitution. Has it been an abject failure then? No.
_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

Willful ignorance at it's best


Willfully reject the state? You bet. Ignorant? Yes, aren't we all? Plus, I did not wake up one day and decide to be an Anarchist...this happened over years of disappointment.

I don't need to write a book. All i need to do is read books on anarchism to properly discuss it. Which I have. Dissuasions are discussions.


That is fine, that's what this topic was created for. What I was getting at is, people will start to look at anarchism and start fixing it's flaws and leaks and start creating rules and guidelines to fix those cracks. So when it happens it will no longer be anarchism and just turn into a government...that's my thought on it. Which by the way, I appreciate the activity in this forum Mr.
MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,540 posts
2,210

That is fine, that's what this topic was created for. What I was getting at is, people will start to look at anarchism and start fixing it's flaws and leaks and start creating rules and guidelines to fix those cracks. So when it happens it will no longer be anarchism and just turn into a government...that's my thought on it. Which by the way, I appreciate the activity in this forum Mr.


So you're saying we should just ignore the problems with such a system?

It would seem to me that if the system is so flawed that it has to no longer exist to be fixed than doesn't that suggest a system that is not of true use?
_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

So you're saying we should just ignore the problems with such a system?

It would seem to me that if the system is so flawed that it has to no longer exist to be fixed than doesn't that suggest a system that is not of true use?


No, first, you can't fix the flaws. It will never happen, and that is with any system. To me, Anarchy is a natural thing. It should happen and not have man made law effecting it's way.
nichodemus
online
nichodemus
14,480 posts
24,880

Willfully reject the state? You bet. Ignorant? Yes, aren't we all? Plus, I did not wake up one day and decide to be an Anarchist...this happened over years of disappointment.


Yet you still cannot promote your case effectively and rebutt most of our arguments, instead dismissing them with flippant reasons. "It's only natural, accept it" and the like.

So when it happens it will no longer be anarchism and just turn into a government...that's my thought on it. Which by the way, I appreciate the activity in this forum Mr.


Anarchism espouses the belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis. It's doesn't metamorphose into another form of what it seeks to get rid of.

No, first, you can't fix the flaws. It will never happen, and that is with any system. To me, Anarchy is a natural thing. It should happen and not have man made law effecting it's way.


History has led us on a march towards ever increasing bureaucracy and government control. We might see decentralization of power, but governments have always been in control; we do not see a "natural" trend towards the opposite case. Democracy has given the people more power, yet this is only within the framework of a functioning government and state apparatus, abominations to anarchists.
danielo
offline
danielo
1,776 posts
660

Peopel who lived naturaly died at the age of 15. If they were lucky to survive the first 3 years. That all i have to say.

My neighbores had dogs. i have dogs too. she feed them only bones and left over. once i told her that its not healthy for the dogs. she said to me "well, this is what they eat in the nature". so i told her "in nature they would die years ago". same here. so you say "lets try! it could be fun!". we dont talk about a ice cream falvor or a ride in a theme park. we talk about something that effect the life of millions. and its not natural to live in comepletly equality. its not natural to help each other. we used to take order. from the leader, when it was chief, king or a president. we are sheeps, not lizards. we are wolf in a pack, not jaguars.

There is enough problme in Israel with the settlers who build without premision. so you say "lets everyone to whatever they want, no rules!"?
civilization is based on rules and Bureaucracy.
This is what stop your neighbore from building a mall on you yard! What stop a farmer passing his livestock on you house!
What stop investors building a water park just in front of your house!
Its what make resturants not to put dead rats in the meat.
What make car makers not use cheap stuff to save money.
What make doctors not fake desease adn take more money on you!

Bureaucracy is not a punishment. its what keep life in order. its so obviuse you live in place wher there is order. no one threat you as a country, no army is threat to invade you. I live under the range of rockets. I know how much this system is important! Its so obviuse you dont know what hate its. And im not talking about a far away wakko who say he need to destroy USA, and maybe even do soem terror attack. i talk about a real threat. armies of people who just look for a excuse to charge on my country. So yea, building a house require allot of paper work, and you pay taxes. but how a nation, my people will defend themselve otherwise? people will donate money? everyone will share? Im sure you understand its not going to happen.
In a group of 50 dudes in a lonely island, maybe. On a far away lands, at the wilderness? maybe. but in place wher there arer more than 6000 peoples its just a Childish dream on a perfect world, wher everyone live in peace with each other and flowers and butterflies!

And here is another storie. i was a compere at a youth organization, wher teens make activities for younger kids once a week, with ideas of Tolerance and peace. So me and two other comperes were needed to make our first activite for a group of 3th graders. The other two wanted to do a ball game, wher people throw a ball to each other, say ther name and there favorite animal. I immediately rold them "what ball we will use? we need to bring a ball". so they said "dont be so distresed, we will find one". then they wanted to make Pittas on a Tabun {a Iron dome that you put over the fire and put Dough on}. i said "does one of you know how to use it?" they said "stop be so negative!". in the day of the activity, we didnt found any ball {because no one thought to bring one}, and the one in the club, wher we do teh activities, was cut in half. then, when we made the pittas, all of them fell to the fire, as no one of them tought to bring a spetula or something, and we didnt knew how to take the Dough out of the tabun. I dont need to say that the activitie was a total failure.

You say "lets do anarchy! dont think, just do! dont be so negative, it will work!". I dont want my Pitta to fall into the fire.

_Spaz_
offline
_Spaz_
143 posts
200

Yet you still cannot promote your case effectively and rebutt most of our arguments, instead dismissing them with flippant reasons. "It's only natural, accept it" and the like.


That is my case...I don't see how else to present it. Anarchy is a natural thing...when it happens...it happens. And people will naturally turn to Anarchism.

we do not see a "natural" trend towards the opposite case


So far.
zeus999
offline
zeus999
31 posts
1,670

Truthfully I wish anarchy could happen I consider myself an anarchist. The problem is the majority of people are weak minded. They flock toward government, because its easier.

Showing 76-90 of 133