ForumsWEPRgun controle gone wrong again.

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partydevil
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partydevil
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Jacen96
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Jacen96
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to those who want to ban guns, let me posit a scenario.

You are walking one day through your home city, you are the only one in town with a concealed carry permit, and you are a great marksman. Around dinner time (when the sun is getting low) a couple men drive in to town from the west. They stop and get out, pulling something that looks like it might be a gun, and wearing what appears to masks. What do you do?

note: the sun is slightly in your way but you can see them somewhat.










what did you decide to do.

nothing: congratulations, they opened fire and killed everyone in the nearby vicinity

you take cover and prepare to shoot if they fire: you save half the casualties.

You pull out your gun and shoot: no one is hurt.



and people are not as likely to shoot others with guns if they know those people have guns and know how to use them.


~~~Darth Caedus

geedds
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geedds
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for me it's just clear that this couldn't have happend if gun were not on the public market.

Your ideal of criminals and law abiding citizens is messed up.

Criminals won not go turn in their guns and they still would get guns because they are criminals people that break the law in the 1st place.

no valid reason in this case.
as the father was not a criminal but a teacher. there would be no reason for him to have a gun if it was illegal.
(this is not 1 of those rampages where you can throw in this card) [quote]

What that is a retarded statement. But a common way to bend the aguement to your way of thinking.

Yes it does count.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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USA should review its gun licensing procedures .
A psychoanalysis should be must to avoid things like colorado happening.
Here in KSA, a few years back, a man went crazy and shot up his family and neighbors. Since then, a psychoanalysis is must.

Kasic
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Kasic
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@Jacen, hypotheticals like that are generally very...poor means of persuasion. I could create the same hypothetical and say that nothing happened when you didn't shoot them and use it as evidence that a gun would have resulted in a meaningless death.

no valid reason in this case.
as the father was not a criminal but a teacher. there would be no reason for him to have a gun if it was illegal.


As I said previously, there are reasons where a usually law-abiding citizen may break the law in a non-harmful way...

For example, people who use drugs on occasion but their lives are not messed up because of it. They don't have a 'reason' other than 'they want to' and they still don't cause any trouble. Similarly, the teacher could have a gun because he wanted one for personal protection or because he simply wanted it.

Where is this stupid idea coming from that just because something is illegal a person in a 'respected' profession cannot/will not break that no matter what?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Actually, it does. Criminals aren't as stupid as people think. Black clothing in a dark environment makes a person difficult do see. Hence the common usage of black clothing by criminals at night.

What I meant is, while burglars are often dressed in dark clothes, people in dark clothes walking around at night are probably not burglars. Hence the stupidity of using black clothes as an argument to shoot on someone, or even considering that person a criminal.

to those who want to ban guns, let me posit a scenario.

Ban guns? How about more reasonable legislations first?

--

Btw, and I know such numbers are probably wrong in some way anyway, but can someone show me a statistic of the total number of thefts and the percentage in which the occupant/s have been actually shot by the thief?
AatosLiukkonen
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AatosLiukkonen
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Hence the stupidity of using black clothes as an argument to shoot on someone, or even considering that person a criminal.


It wasn't the sole reason for the shooting, but part of the larger picture. The ski mask and the knife didn't help.

but can someone show me a statistic of the total number of thefts and the percentage in which the occupant/s have been actually shot by the thief?


0%. Thieves don't shoot people. Robbers? Typically no shootings, but the threat of the gun is a common occurrence. Armed robbery is fairly common, but home invasions are not. Home invasions while the people are home almost always involve violence, as people are just going to invite a stranger in to steal everything.

Most burglars are smart enough to wait until the owners leave such as on a vacation or when they're at work. If not for the lesser charges then for the chance that the burglar him or herself might very well get shot in the process, as happens here in Houston fairly commonly.

There are no solid numbers, however.
AatosLiukkonen
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AatosLiukkonen
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as people aren't just going


Fix'd.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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What I meant is, while burglars are often dressed in dark clothes, people in dark clothes walking around at night are probably not burglars. Hence the stupidity of using black clothes as an argument to shoot on someone, or even considering that person a criminal.


He didn't shoot a random person walking around, he shot a person who was trespassing and attempting to break into the house. The fact the kid was wearing black only made him look more like a criminal, because there is a practical reason to wear black when you rob people's houses.

The kid looked like a criminal, but it was his actions that got him killed.
geedds
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geedds
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[quote]Ban guns? How about more reasonable legislations first?[HahiHa/quote]

Yeah because new legislation will make criminals follow the law cause they do already.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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gltich

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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glitch 2

Masterforger
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To those who will say robbers are thieves: Wrong. Thieves sneak, they do not want to be noticed, they are generally skilled. Robbers are thugs with a useless agenda. They generally come armed, with guns or a knife or the like.
And to those wanting more gun laws: IT WILL NOT WORK. Standard gun crimes are with illegal, easily obtained guns! They aren't fully licensed gun owners randomly killing people!
Also, if the teacher wants a gun, let 'im 'ave 'is gun.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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0%. Thieves don't shoot people. Robbers? Typically no shootings, but the threat of the gun is a common occurrence. Armed robbery is fairly common, but home invasions are not. Home invasions while the people are home almost always involve violence, as people are just going to invite a stranger in to steal everything.

Most burglars are smart enough to wait until the owners leave such as on a vacation or when they're at work. If not for the lesser charges then for the chance that the burglar him or herself might very well get shot in the process, as happens here in Houston fairly commonly.

Uhuh. So people should in general not fear being shot by thiefs/robbers/whatever at home, nor should they hope to catch the thief/robber/whatever in action. So why the fixation on guns against those people?

He didn't shoot a random person walking around, he shot a person who was trespassing and attempting to break into the house. The fact the kid was wearing black only made him look more like a criminal, because there is a practical reason to wear black when you rob people's houses.

It seems as if I don't, but I know, I do. I just find it silly to even mention him being dressed in black.

Yeah because new legislation will make criminals follow the law cause they do already.

Who told you legislations are directed to criminals?
partydevil
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[quote] http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms


Not sure if that site is trustworthy. For example, Russia, Liberia, Somalia, Swaziland, Jamacia, Panama, Honduras, and Brazil should be somewhere on there.
[/quote]

i used the site aswell. untill i saw it hasn't been administred anymore since 2002 except for a little bit in 2006.

the site was valid and still is. it's just outdated.
danielo
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Say whatever you want, here in Israel we dont fear that a criminal with a knife will assult you. Its just dont happen. If you do find a robber, and you are not a small kid, you start to shout and yrll at him, he will run away. they dont want to start fight. In cases like these, htey are like a bear. if you will catch them in the corner they might try to silence you, or push you away.

My neighbores dont have a gun. a robber tried to break in. the father get out with a lead pipe. the criminal ran away.

These peoples dont want to enslave you. they want to make easy cash. and killing dont make it easy.


And here is question - so even if the poor kid was a thief. the father have a premition to be an executiner? execute the thief on the spot? even when we encouter terrorists we never shoot ot kill. even if he has knife. the most majority of them are in prison, not in cemeteries. Kids at the age of 18 but trained very well, who dont kill when they panic.

My problme with a gun is that when you hold it, you have the willing to "Shoot to kill". thiefs get knifes just so they will feel safe. most of the time they wont use it, maybe just to threat so you will shut up while they run away.

And as i said over and over again, Masterforger, when you ban guns people dont buy them in shops. police arest people with guns and no premition. there is no guns in most of the western world! only in USA you almost can "buy a gun from a vending machin" as the old say. Ther is no guns in Isael, exept police mans and soliders in vacation {and they are not allowed to use it in any case. only a direct threat on them, not even in the street, just when someone shoot at them directly}. and wallla! there are no cloaktowers snipers, and no crazy kids rampages, people dont kill the boss or crow workers, peopel dont get shot for how they dress {even if you dress like bin-laden. you are not the judge}.
adn want to hear a secret? the police does help. so maybe they wont catch a burgler on the spot. but its not your job in the modern world. you cant arrest people. you cant shoot peoples.

USA lieing to iself that gun are a normal thing fora modern country. its not. you make yourself look like a bunch of hillybillies who shoot afro-americans and hispanic peopels on the streets.

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