Forums

ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.

[dup]Arguments for God

Thread Locked

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 1:41am

SpazAttackerz

SpazAttackerz

62 posts

So why would you say that the universe, or just earth, which is infinitely more complex, was a complete accident, that it just happened?

The earth, yes somewhat complex, shows many scientific signs of how it was formed. 4.6 billion years ago, the Earth and the other planets in our solar system formed from a vast cloud of dust and rocks that surrounded the young sun. For the first few hundred million years, life probably could not have originated or survived on Earth because the planet was still being bombarded by huge chunks of rock and ice left over from the formation of the solar system. The collisions generated enough heat to vaporize the available water and prevent seas from forming.

We can see this through patterns in the oceans, showing collisions of other rocks and meteorites. We've observed the collapses of other stars and solar systems, showing what they create afterwards. There is scientific evidence for why the earth was created, even more so about how mountains, oceans, canyons, and rivers were formed.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 3:46am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,535 posts

In terms of the Judaic/Christian God..having definitive proof for that God would go against the religion.

The whole premise of that God and the religion is to have faith that the God exists. To have proof of that God would go against the idea of having faith in it

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 5:21am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,006 posts

Knight

Also another argument (this one I didn't come up with) is the moral argument. Rocks are not moral, they have no standard nor do bugs or trees. The things you claim created the universe are indifferent as to how to behave. And yet people have a sense of right and wrong by default.

Morality is just a manifestation of what we do not want done to us. Sanctity of life? We have a stake in maintaining so because we all want tore aim alive. Don't steal. We have a stake in this as well. This sense of right and wrong comes not just because we believe in divine punishment or because some higher being mysteriously imbued in us a sense of it.

What about nihilistic philosophers then? They do not believe in morality. Does that refute God? Or Buddhism where there is no concept of a Supreme Creator, yet is a philosophy steeled in morality?

Think of a cell. Just one little cell, any kind, be it blood cell or brain cell. Man, with all of its intelligence and technology, can't make even a single cell without having something living to begin with. Science dictates that you cannot creat life without life. If man with all it has can't create life, how could it have just happened?

Scientists actually have created life in the lab already. Craig Venter programmed an entire cell's DNA with his team. God seems outmoded then.

You might go to the scientists who say hat they know that this Rick is x million years old. But they can't confirm that because the way they date it isn't accurate past about 2,000 years old. They measure how old something is base on how much of a certain radioactive material is in it, but how much of that radioactive material is in the air varies, and they know how much is in the air because they study it through trees which have one ring (when cut down) in the middle for every year, the oldest trees are about 2,000 years old, and apparently how much of said material is in he air varies quite a bit. Enough to completely throw off anything much past 2,000 years.

The carbon-14 dating limit lies around 58,000 to 62,000 years so you might have wanted to fact check before quoting wrongly.

Given the billions of galaxies and trillions of planets, I see no reason that coincidence and chance being Sufficient  reason any less believable than an invisible man.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 5:40am

DSM

DSM

796 posts

I don't think you can infer the existence of God from the existence of the world - what logical connection is there between the two?

And why cant you? I think it makes perfectly/logical sense, since most people will claim god created the world.

This is a baseless claim. You are inserting your random preferred cause without evidence

When people are speaking of something like god, then you cant demand evidence. What did atheist expect? some guy with a white beard coming and throwing lighting balls? God is something that cant be proven and nor disproved. So if the topic was made solely to get evidence on the subject, then it can as well be deleted, since no evidence will occur.   

Anyone can just as easily claim that because the world exists their reason is why.

and no one is preventing them doing so.

Let's replace some nouns and have fun, shall we?

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for Adskhjlfghs's existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for my existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for no other existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for karma's existence

Let's replace some nouns and have fun, shall we?

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for Adskhjlfghs's existence (isn't it true?)
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for my existence (why is that claim wrong?)
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for no other existence (whats wrong with this one? sounds like a theory, I even bet you can make a topic and have a good discussion with this one)

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for karma's existence (and again, whats wrong with this one? as I said in the other one, you can make a good topic/discussion with this claim)

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 5:47am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,006 posts

Knight

All want to remain alive*

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 9:24am

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

no evidence will occur.

then why believe in it?

their will also be no evidence for care bears living in the clouds.
but do you not believe they are there? i sure do.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 10:13am

DSM

DSM

796 posts

then why believe in it?

because there no evidence of disproving god either, so why not believe in god?

their will also be no evidence for care bears living in the clouds.
but do you not believe they are there? i sure do.

I don't believe in them, but I would never try to convince you to not believe in them.
If I don't have any evidence/facts on a matter that you believe in, then I wouldn't try to convince you not to believe in it, simple because I find it ridiculous/wrong/funny, since it wouldn't mean you find it in that way. So me trying to convince you not to believe in something I have no evidence for not to exist, would be directly rude of me.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 11:11am

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

because there no evidence of disproving god either, so why not believe in god?

those that make the claim that god exists have to give proof for their claim. it's not up to other people to disproof it.

if they can't even give proof for their claims then why should we even try to disproof it? there is nothing to disproof to begin whit.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 11:18am

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

danm submit, it's to close on my new laptop =/
i was going to add:

the people that believe in god, say that the evidence is in the bible.
so we are disproving the bible.
and you can't say we are doing a bad job whit that, right? ;)

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 11:20am

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

What I was asking was do you think that these things, fate, karma, unnatural luck, could be controlled by something like a god

Anything would be possible with an all powerful supernatural figure.

@ImTheMostManlyMan, what you gave was a list of fallacies for your reasons. Arguments from incredulity and the watchmaker fallacy.

To have proof of that God would go against the idea of having faith in it

Doesn't that just seem...pointless?

And why cant you? I think it makes perfectly/logical sense, since most people will claim god created the world.

Mass belief /= logical. The very idea of a figure which violates all natural things...is pretty much the definition of illogical.

When people are speaking of something like god, then you cant demand evidence.

Yes we can. And no one can give it. Which is a very good reason to not believe in it...

since no evidence will occur.

And you see nothing wrong with blindly believing in something which you believe dictates every little bit of the world and say you cannot find any reason to believe it?

the fact that the...

See? You just rejected or accepted my random insertions. I never gave any evidence for them.

because there no evidence of disproving god either, so why not believe in god?

There's no evidence of disproving fairys, asfha;sjfk, or whatever else I can make up. Why don't you believe in them?