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[dup]Arguments for God

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Posted Oct 15, '12 at 8:59pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

1,343 posts

Now the question is, what is god? If we describe god as the creator of everything, then couldn't god be the beginning of everything? I mean that scientifically. If science develop to the point where it knows exactly what was there before there was anything at all. Something before big bang, and something before that, and something before that(and so on). And it reach to a point where there wasn't anything before that. In other words, something that started it all. Couldn't that be described as god/creation of god?

unfortunately, DSM, you're assuming there is a god in the first place, and the quest for knowledge will have an end. the Big Bang is caused by an explosion of infinite energy (no offense, but the only "god" energy I've seen these days comes from his overzealous followers clinging to his existience for dear life). how that came into effect nobody knows, but if god did it, then that is pretty much all he is responsible for, and nothing else (except what said followers claimed he did).

now my question is: if god didn't exist, what would you do then? suppose we have discovered the cause of the big bang, and we were able to prove it through experimentation, and that god could definitely be ruled out as the cause, or even as a factor, what would you do with your life then?

I mean, why is the physical law the way it is, what decide that?

there isn't a why, or a what. again, you're assuming god exists, which is the downfall of the argument. the laws of physics just are.

What will happen, when science reach the point, where it no longer can explain something/observe it.

I'll only say this once: Science can explain everything if given time, rescources, and effort by people wanting to challenge the status quo. gallileo challenged the status quo when he proved the earth was round (instead of flat, according to early christian theology).

-Blade

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 9:10pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,677 posts

Knight

You don't need to accept them, you can just know them. This way you can be sure that knowledge don't disappear.

What knowledge are you speaking of in regards to something not demonstrated to exist?

It doesn't need to be unnatural cause. I use god to explain what is beyond observation. I am not denying facts or science.

This is called the god of the gaps. In essence this is an argument from ignorance fallacy. Claiming we don't know therefore X. In this case X is god. This is not a very sound argument for god to make either as it has the effect of reducing one's god over time as new information is gained. Or it leaves a person at odds with the new piece of knowledge.

They don't need to. The only one who have the burden to prove/disprove something, is the one who try to convince other people.

Umm, no. It's the one making the positive claim. For instance some one tells you they know a guy who can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. You tell them that you don't believe this person can unless they can show proof that this person can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. It would be up to the person claiming they guy can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge to show proof and not up to you to disprove the claim.

exactly, which means there is no need for a debate or a discussion in that subject. As I said before, no evidence will occur from any side. People who believe in god, can believe in god and those who don't, don't need to. And problem solved.

False claims which go against the observed evidence are regularly made based on such beliefs.

Now the question is, what is god? If we describe god as the creator of everything, then couldn't god be the beginning of everything? I mean that scientifically.

What if it turns out that it was nothing more than quantum fluctuations, could that really be called god? A very basic definition of god is a being with supreme control over some aspect of reality. So calling god the universe or that "quantum fluctuation" would be doing nothing more than taking something already defined and giving it the god label.

What will happen, when science reach the point, where it no longer can explain something/observe it.

Then it's treated as an unknown and we continue to search of what we can observe in order to form explanations and improve our knowledge.

Another thing that is good to take in consideration is, what decide the way natural things works? I mean, why is the physical law the way it is, what decide that?

This is like asking what decides a round peg fits into a round hole.
A law is simply a statement of fact describing in concise terms an action or set of actions that always apply under the same conditions.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 9:18pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,977 posts

the Big Bang is caused by an explosion of infinite energy

*expansion
*nearly infinite

gallileo challenged the status quo when he proved the earth was round (instead of flat, according to early christian theology).

It was generally accepted that the earth was round by that time. He challenged geocentricism.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 9:19pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,677 posts

Knight

No matter if you are a Atheist or not, you would be a idiot to not except that there is a supreme creating energy referred to as God.

It sounds a bit like you're just inserting the God label on something that could otherwise be defined.

But to not think that there is a ultimate energy that can create life would be ignoramus.

The creation of life is not a creating energy but a chemical reaction resulting in self replicating molecules.

But this is my opinion, but over all something you cannot argue with is that there is a creative energy out there that made all life, matter, planets, people, and more. Got any other theory, I would gladly hear (even though you cannot persuade me).

This isn't even a theory and the point that you cannot be persuaded only demonstrates closed mindedness.
What we tend to think of as creation isn't even creation but the reordering of matter/energy into new forms.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 9:51pm

Jacen96

Jacen96

2,218 posts

The fact that every law of the universe is set up just right in order for life to exist, is evidence of God.

~~~Darth Caedus

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 10:00pm

ninjanick

ninjanick

71 posts

I fell god isn't as much as a person but a representation of what we believe our highest standards should be. In the USA where most morals are based on the bible when someone says'"god wants this" they realy say this is what we hummanly want and believe in. The exception is when god's name is use falsly for gain. This can happen in any religon of course.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 10:04pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

The fact that every law of the universe is set up just right in order for life to exist, is evidence of God.

This is fallacious (and becoming an annoying repetition) in that you're applying whatever you want as the cause without evidence. You're implying one, that there was intention, and two, that any small change would prohibit life. Neither is the case.

I'm not going to repeat myself again, please look back in the thread as this fallacious point has been brought up 5-6 times already.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 10:36pm

SpazAttackerz

SpazAttackerz

62 posts

A question for the OP, if you would, could you explain what you mean by the term "God"? This thread has talked about the christian/judaism god, a source of energy god, a god that controls things from karma to fate, and so on.

To really narrow down arguments I think we need a better definition of what god we're discussing in this thread.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 11:06pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,677 posts

Knight

The fact that every law of the universe is set up just right in order for life to exist, is evidence of God.

The universe is set up just right so that 99.99% of it is uninhabitable and fatal to known life, sure is proof of God alright.

 

Posted Oct 15, '12 at 11:14pm

SpazAttackerz

SpazAttackerz

62 posts

To continue off of what MageGrayWolf said, try leaving the Earth's atmosphere, going into space, being in your "natural form", no protective gear whatsoever.

It doesn't end well.