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How old do you think the universe is?

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 6:04pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,592 posts

Not Catholic or Mormon, Not sure what a protestant is. I'm a Christian.

Catholics and Mormons are also Christians...

Examples of Protestants are Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.

So let's get this clear while we're at it. What's your denomination?

But then where did the stuff that formed the Big Bang come from. We basically have no idea.

Correct. We don't know currently where it came from. There are several popular explanations but there's not enough evidence right now to determine anything.

With Time Travel we'll be able to see what happened. Sadly there's no Time Travel Yet.

Time travel may not be possible, or it may only be possible into the future. Even still, witnessing an event like the Big Bang would be like an ant getting front row seats to a hydrogen bomb test.

No what I meant was you can't ask me about it in my theory if you don't even know it yourself in yours.

For the 4th or 5th time, the Big Bang theory does -not- include where and how the preliminary conditions came to be met. It details the event itself.

Another example is how evolution covers the change in organisms over time, but does not include how life came to be in the first place.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 6:05pm

wontgetmycatnip

wontgetmycatnip

95 posts

What do you mean?

Which of the many versions of Christianity?

You sir are an idiot. This is what I said. Retard.

What a brilliant refutation of my argument. I am in awe of your rhetorical skills.

"I was saying "How should I know how he created it? All I know is he created it" Not "How should I know anything about him creating it I wasn't there. I know how he created it though"

"Well if you have no idea where it came from your theory is invalid." Okay so which scribes penned the Bible? If you don’t know exactly which ones did, according to that logic, than any Biblical argument you make is invalid. (Your argument was simply wrong on its face- whether someone knows where their argument came from is completely irrelevant to the validity of the argument.)

I understand common sense though. Something that doesn't have proof to back it up is invalid.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
By your logic, the theory of gravity, germ theory, and atomic theory are all invalid as they have never been proven.

I asked a counter-question though. Which you didn't answer.

You just quoted my answer to your counter question. Asking what happened before the big bang is pointless, as it is impossible to determine that given current technology. You’ve also dodged my question for roughly 2.5 pages now.

God said "Let there be Universe" or something. The Universe Appeared. Simple. It could happen again if he stated that phrase again.

And how does that work?

So I'd say "If you don't know and I don't know then my statement is True until proven False. Like the justice system innocent until proven guilty." I'd say.

That is just about the stupidest thing you’ve said so far. Unicorns exist, PROVE ME WRONG. Bill Clinton is an Irish fairy, PROVE ME WRONG. No, if neither of us knows the truth value of a statement, that does not make it true.

It's something you can actually SEE. You can not SEE that the Big Bang happened so it needs proof.

Once again, YOU CANNOT PROVE A SCIENTIFIC THEORY.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 7:22pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,691 posts

Knight

I understand common sense though. Something that doesn't have proof to back it up is invalid.

So it's common sense that a super powered being created the universe that created this super powered being and you know this without anything of substance to support it?

"Okay fair enough I can't back up my claims but I can still believe them."

Since you seem to be admitting here that your claim is unsubstantiated then it should be considered invalid.

I asked a counter-question though. Which you didn't answer.

We have been answering you while all you have done is dodge questions.

God said "Let there be Universe" or something. The Universe Appeared. Simple. It could happen again if he stated that phrase again.

Literally you're believing that some being said abracadabra and that made the universe.

"From the creationist’s perspective, the method or mechanism of creation which these mystical beings use is nothing more than a golem spell where clay statues are animated with an enchantment.  Or its an incantation in which complex modern plants and animals are "spoken" into being. That’s right, magic words which cause fully-developed adult animals to be conjured out of thin air. Or a god simply wishes them to exist; so they do. That’s it! There really is nothing more to it than that; pure freakin’ magic "by definition." -AronRa

So I'd say "If you don't know and I don't know then my statement is True until proven False. Like the justice system innocent until proven guilty." I'd say.

You got it backwards. The claim in a justice system is that a person did it. So in a justice system something would be false until proven true. This is also so in science. i would recommend you look up something called the null hypothesis.

I don't know what Bible you read but NEVER anywhere in the Bible does it say anything but God.

Okay i guess i will step in here. There are various terms used when speaking of God, one of them is his proper name, which in the Hebrew text is only two letter. The closest translation we have for these letters into English is Yhwh. We really have no idea how exactly this was originally pronounced, but the closest we could figure would have been Yahweh. Jehovah is another way to pronounce it as some alphabets Y and J can be interchangeable and W and V (or more accurately VV) can be interchangeable. However J and V didn't exist in this early language, this is why Y and W are the more likely characters. 

As for that blue Bible site. El is a proper name of a god and a title, translating as "most high" or "God". Earlier religions has El as Yahweh's father. There is also Elohim. This is a pluralization of El, so Elohim means gods.

On a final note Allah is just the word for God, not exactly a name.

Now going back to the topic.

That's talking about something else, It's something you can actually SEE. You can not SEE that the Big Bang happened so it needs proof.

I provided you with the evidence for the Big Bang, even bothering to copy and paste it all down here because you didn't like the look of the site, which you subsequently ignored.

WE HAVE THE "PROOF" THAT WE CAN SEE!

However you have no "proof" that this God did what you claim he did or even that this God exists at all. You don't know either, yet you are claiming that you do.

That's simply because it's Common knowledge where to get stuff to make a cake. It's not common knowledge to know where to get stuff to make a universe from an EMPTY void.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

But then where did the stuff that formed the Big Bang come from. We basically have no idea.

Yet you're claiming to know what I unknown. That is what's making your statements so intellectually dishonest.

No what I meant was you can't ask me about it in my theory if you don't even know it yourself in yours.

Yes we can since you're positing a claim to know.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 9:11pm

blk2860

blk2860

4,530 posts

So let's get this clear while we're at it. What's your denomination?

Denomination?

Time travel may not be possible, or it may only be possible into the future. Even still, witnessing an event like the Big Bang would be like an ant getting front row seats to a hydrogen bomb test.

Basically you mean it would be Instant Death?

Which of the many versions of Christianity?

There are other versions?

What a brilliant refutation of my argument. I am in awe of your rhetorical skills.

Well Thank you Lieutenant Sarcasm

the theory of gravity, germ theory, and atomic theory are all invalid as they have never been proven.

Gravity has been.

And how does that work?

Well He says words. The universe appears. That's how.

That is just about the stupidest thing you’ve said so far. Unicorns exist, PROVE ME WRONG. Bill Clinton is an Irish fairy, PROVE ME WRONG. No, if neither of us knows the truth value of a statement, that does not make it true.

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

Also There have never been Unicorn sightings and Bill Clinton doesn't have fairy wings.

So it's common sense that a super powered being created the universe that created this super powered being and you know this without anything of substance to support it?

No it's called R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N

Literally you're believing that some being said abracadabra and that made the universe.

It's not a spell. He said "Let Their Be Life." And then he Breathed Life into the clay. Not just "Abracaherpyderp" And he did nothing and it magically happened.

The claim in a justice system is that a person did it

Heh Heh. I don't know what country you're from but it's "Innocent until proven Guilty" in the U.S

which in the Hebrew text is only two letter

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

On a final note Allah is just the word for God, not exactly a name.

I told you in my bible it just says God.

WE HAVE THE "PROOF" THAT WE CAN SEE!

And where is that.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

He was saying the Universe is like Cake.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:05pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,013 posts

Denomination?
There are other versions?

Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Anabaptist, Methodist, Latter Day Saints...

Basically you mean it would be Instant Death?

If you were there at the time, yes. For starters, there was no air.

Gravity has been.

There is indeed plenty of evidence supporting it, but it is still a falsifiable scientific Theory.

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

You do realize that the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and the New Testament was originally written in Greek, right? What language is 'Christian'?

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

The side with the positive claim must provide the evidence.

There have never been Unicorn sightings

Then why is the unicorn mentioned in the bible?

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:07pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,013 posts

I told you in my bible it just says God.

Which version? King James? New International Version? American Standard Version?

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:13pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,592 posts

Denomination?

Sigh.

Is there an ending on the church you go to? Actually, ask your parents. I'm sure they can tell you what you believe.

Basically you mean it would be Instant Death?

Pretty much...

There are other versions?

Go learn what you believe. Then we can talk about how it's not backed by any type of evidence.

Gravity has been.

No it hasn't. We don't know why gravity exists or if it's caused by a certain particle or whatever. All we know is that from the observable data mass draws other mass to it, and the more mass the more it draws.

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

If you're okay with what you believe being on the level of a nine toed pixie, well, that's that I suppose.

Well He says words. The universe appears. That's how.

Magic is fun isn't it?

No it's called R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N

Religion doesn't have to have a god. So, no, not really actually.

It's not a spell. He said "Let Their Be Life." And then he Breathed Life into the clay. Not just "Abracaherpyderp" And he did nothing and it magically happened.

Let's take a closer look at this.

Magic: Words are said, effects happen.
God: Words are said, effects happen.

What do you know, they're the same.

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

You're a horribly, horribly, horribly ignorant Christian who doesn't know the first thing about his own faith because you just listen to what others tell you without question.

The ENTIRE Old Testament is Hebrew writings. Your ENTIRE argument about how God made the universe COMES FROM HEBREW WRITINGS.

And where is that.

On page 8.

He was saying the Universe is like Cake.

*facepalm*

No. I was saying that the Big Bang theory did not cover events preceding the Big Bang. Way to understand an analogy.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:14pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,592 posts

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

If you're okay with what you believe being on the level of a nine toed pixie, well, that's that I suppose.

Well He says words. The universe appears. That's how.

Magic is fun isn't it?

No it's called R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N

Religion doesn't have to have a god. So, no, not really actually.

It's not a spell. He said "Let Their Be Life." And then he Breathed Life into the clay. Not just "Abracaherpyderp" And he did nothing and it magically happened.

Let's take a closer look at this.

Magic: Words are said, effects happen.
God: Words are said, effects happen.

What do you know, they're the same.

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

You're a horribly, horribly, horribly ignorant Christian who doesn't know the first thing about his own faith because you just listen to what others tell you without question.

The ENTIRE Old Testament is Hebrew writings. Your ENTIRE argument about how God made the universe COMES FROM HEBREW WRITINGS.

And where is that.

On page 8.

He was saying the Universe is like Cake.

*facepalm*

No. I was saying that the Big Bang theory did not cover events preceding the Big Bang. Way to understand an analogy.

*Quote fixes.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:36pm

Santi_

Santi_

444 posts

Basically you mean it would be Instant Death?

That is the problem. If you tried to watch it occur, well it would be impossible. Nothing would exist outside of the singularity, not air, not even empty space. You would coexist with non-existance, if that's comprehendable.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:42pm

master565

master565

3,874 posts

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

As they say in Hebrew, atah nevaar ben zoneh

 
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