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Posted Nov 16, '12 at 6:41pm
MageGrayWolf
9,140 posts
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I find that to be improbable. If this whole secession business continues unanswered and unresolved, the growing feeling of discontent and resentment towards the Federal Government will only rise and reach a climax, at which point Civil War shall ensue.
I don't find it all that improbable. We already have a pretty good track record of this sort of thing happening.
Do you really think that when it comes to be voting time people will be gloating about how American they wish to be after all these protests?
Yes because it's not the first time this has happened. In fact this was going on in Texas for the last election.
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Posted Nov 16, '12 at 7:16pm
ImTheMostManlyMan
2,299 posts
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They loved what America was supposed to be, what it used to be. Not what it has become and want no part of what it's becoming.
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Posted Nov 16, '12 at 11:27pm
Strop
10,605 posts
Moderator
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I don't think unfeasible is the right word to use in this context
After getting out of bed, I thought about this and couldn't figure out what I was thinking last night. You're right, let's stick to improbable. That'll teach me to post at 5am in the morning.
I won't offer any further feedback on the current developing discussion on national identity, it's going well enough as it is.
Critical mass for escalation into civil unrest?
Think of a nuclear bomb. You need a critical mass for the chain reaction to trigger, and you need a catalyst. I think that's a fairly good (if simple) analogy on how civil unrest turns into protest -> revolt. You simply need enough discontent that people can be galvanised into action given the right circumstances. And I don't know if the numbers cited by these petitions is anywhere near "enough" for that kind of thing.
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Posted Nov 16, '12 at 11:37pm
Salvidian
2,485 posts
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They loved what America was supposed to be, what it used to be. Not what it has become and want no part of what it's becoming.
Conservative much? I'm about as conservative as it gets and even I think that's a bit much. Just because Obama was elected doesn't mean the country will sway into a pit.
While I'm fed with the ton of regulations that democrats have been putting upon our meant-to-be "Leave Alone" economy, some of them have been put to good use. For example, cutting taxes for small business is a fantastic idea, and you can't argue that without sounding like a moron. The idea is awesome, but the effect of the idea (increased national debt) may not be so amazing. If republicans and democrats would work together to fine-tune these ideas we would have a much better system going, but instead it's so partisan that we're at a horrible standstill, and overly-conservative people aren't going to help one bit. In reality, many of the foundations for the country were made up 200 years ago, and several of them need severe updating.
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 1:14am
pangtongshu
4,478 posts
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On the plus side of things...there is a petition to deport all of the people that signed these secession petitions that is almost to the 25,000 mark (or has passed it..haven't checked on it today)
Only 3 or 4 of the state seceding petitions have more than it
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 9:37am
NoNameC68
4,982 posts
Moderator
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Conservative much? I'm about as conservative as it gets and even I think that's a bit much. Just because Obama was elected doesn't mean the country will sway into a pit.
I feel some of the people have made light of everyone's reasons for signing the petition, that's all. I'm not saying secession will work, or that we should secede, just that we need to keep real.
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 5:09pm
SSTG
7,073 posts
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On the plus side of things...there is a petition to deport all of the people that signed these secession petitions that is almost to the 25,000 mark (or has passed it..haven't checked on it today)
Good idea, let's deport those traitors. True patriots stay no matter what and they try hard to change things they don't like, they just don't give up like losers or quitters.
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 5:35pm
ellock
254 posts
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Ok, so I think this whole thing is symbolic to show Obama how upset people are. 20 states in total have signed similar petitions. I think Texas has around 80,000 signatures. The problem with this is that they do not really have enough people to do such a thing. Plus, the Obama administration is not going to address anything with under 25,000 clicks within the first 30 days of the post. Also, the states do not have the right to secede without permission from the president so it will be hard for them to pull that off.
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state#Secession
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 … ral-money/
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 10:18pm
NoNameC68
4,982 posts
Moderator
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Good idea, let's deport those traitors. True patriots stay no matter what and they try hard to change things they don't like, they just don't give up like losers or quitters.
I hope that was sarcasm. If not, the following applies.
I suppose they wouldn't be patriots if they seceded, but you're really bashing them using semantics. When people from Texas act patriotic, it's because they believe in certain principles. To suggest they're being unpatriotic is to COMPLETELY miss the point, and to attack them on something that honestly doesn't matter.
"Oh, they called themselves patriots, then threaten to secede, therefore they're position is wrong," is fallacious in itself. Whether they consider themselves patriotic or not doesn't prove or disprove whether secession is proper or not.
You then explained that they should remain a part of America and try to change things from the inside rather than secede. Now, this may or may not be true, but you made this argument as if it's founded on ethics, which is something I strongly disagree with.
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Posted Nov 17, '12 at 10:44pm
Strop
10,605 posts
Moderator
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Let's stop dancing around the point then, because this is getting nowhere.
On this thread the discussion is now approaching "what does it mean to be patriotic?" It's time for every participant in that discussion to state what they believe it means to "be American".
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