ForumsWEPRGhosts/Can atheists believe in them?

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pangtongshu
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So..I'm sure this was once a thread...but I haven't seen it at all recently so I don't want o go looking for the possible previous one

Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not? etc

"But pang..why is this in WEPR? This should go in The Tavern!"
Don't worry..I gots this covered..

Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)

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Devoidless
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You...you!

I was going to make this same sorta of thread -right now-, but more along the lines of if someone can be atheist but still believe in ghosts. So, um, mind if we kinda merge the two together?

With your permission, I'd just add to the title '/Can atheists believe in them?"
I just do not want two ghost threads going at the same time, detracting from the conversation on one another.

MageGrayWolf
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Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not?


No, because I don't believe we have a dualistic existence. All the evidence we have currently points to our consciousness, our being as being the result of elector chemical interactions in the brain.

but more along the lines of if someone can be atheist but still believe in ghosts.


Yes atheists can believe in ghosts. The only defining factor to be an atheist is to lack belief in a deity, a god. This doesn't discount ghosts, bigfoot, the loch ness monster, UFOs, astra projection, ESP or the theory of Atlantis. So if you are a god, than no...

And of course I wasn't watching Ghostbusters for the umteenth million time. What ever would give you that idea?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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No, because I don't believe we have a dualistic existence. All the evidence we have currently points to our consciousness, our being as being the result of elector chemical interactions in the brain.

^this.

Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)

If ghosts existed, that would merely evidence that we possess some kind of soul that parts from the body after death, so an afterlife in a more vague definition and not e.g. a specific place. Ghosts would actually be quite a sting in the side of the church, as pontifical organs, as far as I know, have always banned belief in ghosts, witches etc. as pagan heresy (inquisitions, among others, being mostly separate organs).
GhostOfHorror
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GhostOfHorror
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Do you believe in ghosts?


Yeah.
Maybe not them in physical presence more to a hologram but I do believe that they're real.
Sometimes, you can also feel an energy around you, someone else's presence and whatnot.

if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife


An afterlife?
I'm not too sure.
I'd like to believe there is an afterlife, that when we die we're not just buried in the ground, cremated and left in an urn and other means of dying.
However, as far as I realistically think, I'd question the fact of an afterlife.
xXxDAPRO89xXx
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xXxDAPRO89xXx
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Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not?


No. How would ghosts be real? Spirits that can do things with real materials in real-time... Definetly not real.
HahiHa
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@GhostOfHorror, how do you reconcile your two statements? To me they sound conflictive, unless you say that ghosts are entities of non-human origin (are not dead people as they are usually described).

pangtongshu
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So, um, mind if we kinda merge the two together?


Go right ahead! Had I not made this in the middle of the night I probably would have added something in the OP along those lines haha

No, because I don't believe we have a dualistic existence. All the evidence we have currently points to our consciousness, our being as being the result of elector chemical interactions in the brain.


So...for what others see as "evidence"..what do you say of those?
For example - a personal experience of watching what would be considered ghostly activites
ProfessorOak
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How would ghosts be real?


How are you real? In reply to the thread, it really depends on my definition of a ghost. I don't believe in generic ghosts simply because I haven't been given a reason to believe.

For example - a personal experience of watching what would be considered ghostly activities


I would think the only reason they believe it is ghost activity is because they have been exposed to the thought of ghosts. If nobody ever introduced the fun thought of spirits walking among us, no one would ever report about them. It's all in their head, either for attention, or because they're very gullible.
blk2860
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blk2860
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Not only do I believe in ghosts, I've Seen Ghosts. I've even been haunted before. Ghosts DO exist. I believe that ghosts are souls that haven't ascended to heaven because they haven't tied up all there loose ends or, in other words have something they haven't done in life.

MageGrayWolf
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So...for what others see as "evidence"..what do you say of those?
For example - a personal experience of watching what would be considered ghostly activites


Most if not all of it can be explained by other things.
EVPs, are often just not words at all but us just trying to find patterns where there aren't any.

Feeling a presence, and even seeing a ghost can because by high electromagnetic field if the person is sensitive enough to them or by infrasound.

More on seeing ghosts, any number of visual hallucinations can cause this and would first have to be ruled out. Also hallucinating doesn't mean you're crazy either. It's actually quite normal. It's actually normal for people under the age of 16 to hear and even see things that aren't there. This is going on because the brain is still developing. The occurrence of it will often lessen or even go away as the brain developed more. Ever wonder why little kids seem to see and hear ghosts more than adults? That's why.
I have also often heard of dreams being mistaken for ghostly activity as well.

Objects moving by themselves can be caused by any number of phenomena, small unnoticed tremors, EMF of the right intensity has been shown to levitate objects that aren't even magnetic just to name a couple.

Strong EMF signals with no apparent source is nothing unusual either. The earth can naturally generate stray EMFs all over the place.

Really there is a lot that would need to be ruled out first (and often isn't) before we could even say it was possibly a ghost.

Not only do I believe in ghosts, I've Seen Ghosts. I've even been haunted before.


I once got a group of kids to believe I was a ghost haunting a stretch of road. That is what their personal experience and what they saw told them. How is yours any better?
GhostOfHorror
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@Hahi Yeah, sorry.
Slight contradiction in what I said.

Basically, what I'm saying is that that I do believe ghosts are real but they're not in full physical form when you see them, hence hologram and that you can feel the presence of someone even if you can't see them at that time.

By "afterlife" I meant heaven/hell or whatever it is called in other religions.
I don't think ghosts are in an afterlife but they just may be 'trapped?' on earth.
I would still like to believe for peace of mind and whatnot that if I die it's possible that there's an afterlife, even if it isn't factual or proven that there is one.

That somewhat explain what I'm trying to say?
I could probably word it better if I wasn't tired.

blk2860
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I once got a group of kids to believe I was a ghost haunting a stretch of road. That is what their personal experience and what they saw told them. How is yours any better?


I was alone in my house in the middle of the night and the house was empty at the time.
MageGrayWolf
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I was alone in my house in the middle of the night and the house was empty at the time.


yeah so? how does that rule out any of the other possible methods that could result in thinking you saw a ghost that i suggested? The point is our senses can be very easily fooled. This is why you shouldn't rely on subjective personal experience.

that you can feel the presence of someone even if you can't see them at that time.


We can do this because our brains are capable of constructing a representation of an individual. Just for a basic way this can work try holding a conversation in your head with Obama. You can picture what he looks like, the sort of responses he would give, you might even hear his voice in your head. Now just extend that ability to the feeling of someone being around.

I don't think ghosts are in an afterlife but they just may be 'trapped?' on earth


Than shouldn't we be inundated with ghosts all over the place considering there have been estimated to be over 20 billion people that have ever existed and this number becomes even more problematic if you want to include other animals.
killersup10
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Killersup feels that some "special" spirits do roam this realm.Not all of them, only the ones that cannot lay at rest. He feels that they exist on a different plane though, a plane that humans cannot see. Yet very few times are the spirit's will strong enough to make it past the barrier that is the plane. These spirits have nothing to do with a God though, of any sort.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Killersup feels that some "special" spirits do roam this realm.Not all of them, only the ones that cannot lay at rest. He feels that they exist on a different plane though, a plane that humans cannot see. Yet very few times are the spirit's will strong enough to make it past the barrier that is the plane. These spirits have nothing to do with a God though, of any sort.


Any evidence of any of that?
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