ForumsWEPRGhosts/Can atheists believe in them?

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pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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So..I'm sure this was once a thread...but I haven't seen it at all recently so I don't want o go looking for the possible previous one

Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not? etc

"But pang..why is this in WEPR? This should go in The Tavern!"
Don't worry..I gots this covered..

Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)

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Jacen96
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Jacen96
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It's actually normal for people under the age of 16 to hear and even see things that aren't there. This is going on because the brain is still developing.
Case in point, when I was young, at a hotel, I was sure that their was something weird going on with the light, it was changing shapes and and fluctuating.

Now that I am older, I realize, maybe it was just the result of having just seen a Silent (/sarcasm).

as for ghosts being real, maybe they are, but I have never seen one, and there has never been documented proof. (Before you say that Christians say ghosts appear to people, I don't consider saints and angels appearing to others to be ghosts.)

~~~Darth Caedus
HahiHa
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That somewhat explain what I'm trying to say?

Yeah, it does. But it shows the necessity to define "afterlife" in this context, because for me, afterlife includes everything that comes after death.

One thing I'd like to point out is, we have not one objective piece of evidence on the existence of ghosts, just individual experiences. However we do have explanations for at least a big part of the experiences. Here some links that might support/expand on the already mentioned in this thread:
- Part 1
- Part 2
- Part 3
- Part 4

To answer the second question (Can atheists believe in them), yes of course. Personally, as already mentioned, I do not make a link between ghosts and a religion like christianism, despite the (only) common assumption of souls or similar stuff. Why would a soul have to complete something on earth before entering heaven? I don't think any religious text makes mention of this, and I think it's something people asusmed to explain their experiences and adopted as truth way too easily.
thepunisher93
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I don't think ghosts (I.E dead people still hanging around) are real
But another phenomenon baffels me.
The pridiction of future.
Many times it has happenned to me that something have happenned which I had envisioned some time earlier.
I 'll give you an example.
Once I dreamed that I am walking with a group of people I don't know downhill and talking to them, I can't see their faces but I remember the conversation.
Fast forward 6 months, I have made some new friends and we go to a hill top city we are talking while walking downhill using same words and street have the exact same structure as my dream.
This still baffles me.
Also, when something bad is about to happen, for some unknown reason I feel it.
Not like an itch or tingling but something just does not feel right.

GhostOfHorror
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ever went back to the house and see if the new owners have seen it.


Nobody lives in the house at the minute because it flooded last winter.

maybe it was just a story of grany or school when you 2 were younger that played whit your mind later and your mom just plays along.


My sister was 21 when it happened, so yeah...

what about your father, he never seen it?


Not that I know of, no.

maybe you just made up the story.


What would be the point of that?

my friend heard his dead dad's ghost. And he's older than 16.


He may not have heard it. He might have just wanted to believe he heard it, if you believe such a thing for so long your mind can actually deem it to be true.

okay guys this is it WHO ****ING CARES JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE OKAY PLEASE


You don't actually have to read through the thread nor prove your idiocy by posting.

using same words and street have the exact same structure as my dream.


That's somewhat odd, even though I can think of a few people that this has happened to.
For example; one night my mother dreamed that someone she knew had got run over by a train.
She told us that morning when she woke up the dream she had, that night he had died after running out in front of a drain while he was drunk.

when something bad is about to happen, for some unknown reason I feel it.
Not like an itch or tingling but something just does not feel right.


Many people can feel something isn't right, it's kind of hard to describe but it's happened to me before.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Once I dreamed that I am walking with a group of people I don't know downhill and talking to them, I can't see their faces but I remember the conversation.
Fast forward 6 months, I have made some new friends and we go to a hill top city we are talking while walking downhill using same words and street have the exact same structure as my dream.
This still baffles me.


It's called a deja vu. I highly, highly, highly doubt you remembered all that clearly what your dream looked like 6 months past. Then you saw a similar scene (and let's face it, a hill in a city isn't special) and you were talking with some people. Eventually that's going to happen regardless.

Also, when something bad is about to happen, for some unknown reason I feel it.


This is called intuition, and also confirmation bias. You remember all the times you felt this way and something bad happened, but not all the times you've felt that way and nothing happened. We tend to remember things which stand out, not stuff that is mundane.

On another note, I forget where I heard this or if it's accurate, but plane crashes often have a high number of cancellations before the flight ever leaves...significantly more than normal. If anyone wants to look into that go ahead, I can't recall where I heard it.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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my mother dreamed that someone she knew had got run over by a train.
She told us that morning when she woke up the dream she had, that night he had died after running out in front of a drain while he was drunk.

Speaking of mothers, when ever an elder relative of mine watches someone getting married in a dream, the other person dies with in next 24 hours, weird.
pangtongshu
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Ghosts would actually be quite a sting in the side of the church


I actually feel it would benefit them. They could then use an argument along the lines of "we know ghosts are real...and, knowing this..how come we don't see any ghosts of "cavemen" or our evolutionary ancestors?"

okay guys this is it WHO ****ING CARES JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE OKAY PLEASE


Hi...welcome to the WEPR section..we like to debate/discuss
EmperorPalpatine
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The pridiction of future.
Many times it has happenned to me that something have happenned which I had envisioned some time earlier.

I get that quite often. It annoys me.

It's called a deja vu. I highly, highly, highly doubt you remembered all that clearly what your dream looked like 6 months past.

Occasionally, I've written down rather specific details or mentioned them to others before events happened. Once, I dreamed that a friend of mine would walk up with an envelope while I was seated in the commons. I vaguely remembered that the ensuing conversation had something to do with his paycheck, as it was, quite frankly, boring. Months later (January of this year), he walks up. I say "Don't tell me... this has something to do with your paycheck." The letter was from his boss (he was doing an internship for a construction company) and his last paycheck was doubled as a holiday gift. So, yes, I remembered.

I actually feel it would benefit them. They could then use an argument along the lines of "we know ghosts are real...and, knowing this..how come we don't see any ghosts of "cavemen" or our evolutionary ancestors?"

Nah, "It's demons/Satan trying to trick you!"
partydevil
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Nobody lives in the house at the minute because it flooded last winter.

go back and check if you still see/hear/feel it.

What would be the point of that?

i dunno.
maybe you want to see how many and/or how easly people are fooled whit a story like that.
maybe you once were fooled by a story yourself and then made up your own to feel better.
maybe your father used the mirror reflection trick to fool you all.

i dunno.
I 'll give you an example.

i once said to a girl i liked that i had dreamed about her (what i didn't i just wanted her attention) and told her that i saw her sitting alone in the middle of a field waiting for someone. (i didn't dream it or saw it in any other way. i just made it up on the spot.)
but 3 weeks latter she told me that my "dream" was true.
her bike broke down and had to wait for help hours alone in a field.

i think it was just coincident i could't know what exactly would happen. but she went through the fields every day to go to school in the city.
so the chance that she once would get stuck on her way was pretty big.

i dunno the moral of the story. but i think it's something along the lines of. predictions can happen but you can't know when, what and where it happens. it's just a big guess.

It's called a deja vu.

going on this. did any ever had the same deja vu twice whitin 1 hour?
i once had that, it is really wierd. xD

but then i went to explore it and it turns out that it is impossible.
as a deja vu is not something you remember from befor but that it is information that your brain accidentally stores into the long term memory instead of the short term. making your brain think that you have been in the situation befor.
EmperorPalpatine
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as a deja vu is not something you remember from befor but that it is information that your brain accidentally stores into the long term memory instead of the short term. making your brain think that you have been in the situation befor.

Perhaps that's true for some, but then how did I retell events before they happened?
HahiHa
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Perhaps that's true for some, but then how did I retell events before they happened?

Depends on the event.. on one side, it could very well be superficially be accurate, but really just easily interpretable in different ways. On the other side, it could be that the event involves enough familiar components so that you had a high chance to unconsciously describe an event very probable to happen sometime.
MageGrayWolf
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Occasionally, I've written down rather specific details or mentioned them to others before events happened. Once,


Something like this happening from time to time isn't all that surprising. I would expect given the number of dreams we have and if we wait long enough, we will eventually get a few that will match up with something that eventually does happen.

Perhaps that's true for some, but then how did I retell events before they happened?


Same way partydevil was able to was able to come up with events that actually happened on the spot. The only difference is you got the made up story in a dream.
Kasic
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I vaguely remembered that the ensuing conversation had something to do with his paycheck, as it was, quite frankly, boring


Okay, seriously? A friend talking to you about his paycheck is, again, something almost inevitable. They also come in envelopes... AND you were waiting for such a thing.
GhostOfHorror
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go back and check if you still see/hear/feel it.


I'm not going to break into a flooded house in the middle of an estate.

you want to see how many and/or how easly people are fooled whit a story like that.


"fooled?"
If I was trying to fool someone, I'd have made it sound somewhat more exciting.

you once were fooled by a story yourself and then made up your own to feel better.


To be honest, if I was 'fooled?' by a story, I probably would have said it somewhere in the thread.

your father used the mirror reflection trick to fool you all.


And; what's that?
EmperorPalpatine
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A friend talking to you about his paycheck is, again, something almost inevitable. They also come in envelopes...

I could've easily been wrong. He could've said, "Nope, it's [something completely different]." Lots of things come in envelopes. It could've been a college acceptance letter, a bill, a project, an application, etc. He had never brought one before and the topic was rarely mentioned, so it wasn't a familiar thing.
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