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Mall shooting in Oregon

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 1:33pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

the usa culture is 1 full whit violence and close minded thinking.

Violence in the media, maybe. We don't condone actual violence to any extent. Hell, you even get in trouble for fighting back at school if you're being attacked.

Close minded isn't true so much as plain ignorance of other points of view.

add to that the arrogantsy and nationalism and this is the outcome.

I'll give you that many Americans are arrogant and nationalistic.

That doesn't mean everyone who think guns shouldn't be illegal is some redneck who lives in the south and drives a 10 year old pickup with 3 shotguns in the back and hangs antlers over their fireplace.

you call it stereotypes, i call it reallity for 50% of the americans

I live here, unlike you, and it's not 50% by any means. The "redneck" amount isn't very high, and the amount of people who are very arrogant/nationalistic is probably on the order of 5-10%. Idiots shout loudest, that doesn't mean there's more of them.

still it should be on the little news page of the paper. i always check those and i can't remember when i saw something like that last.

You could always look it up.

EVERYONE WHIT A GUN IS A CRIMINAL

People still have guns though.

if you see a gun you know the guy isn't good and you can instandly warn the police that he has a gun. and they can instantly arrest him. there is never confusion if it's a criminal or not

When are you going to see said gun? When he pulls it on you? Do you really think they'll let you call the police and wait 5-6 minutes for them to show up?

but you can defend yourself against a knife and you wont die as fast as whit a gun.

Partydevil, I've said this before many times. Not everyone can defend themselves against someone with a knife like you seem to think. Even taking a few self defense courses isn't going to change much in the heat of the moment vs someone who would really be trying to cut you with it. As for dying as fast, that depends on where you're shot/cut.

neither when everyone has a gun.
only if there are loads of guns around the probability that it will happen is much bigger.

I've pulled in statistics before so look them up if you want.

Violence/crime rates in a country are dependent primarily upon the country's economic and political stability. Whether there are guns or not does not affect that.

robbers dont shoot random people.

Exactly. So even if they have the gun, are they going to use it? Perhaps, but same goes for if they were armed with any other type of weapon.

The psychos who are out to kill people are still going to get guns/bombs/whatever to kill people. Making them illegal changes nothing.

why do you need to be the hero at all?
let them run away whit your stuff and go to the police.

I was referring to an incident like an indiscriminate shooting. It's not about "being a hero" either. You want to call others close minded? Stop thinking that there's only two sides, one where guns are illegal and everyone follows that law or one where guns are legal and everyone goes on random shooting sprees.

since uk has gun laws, the shooting incidents have lowered by over 70%
knife attacks on the other had have tripled.

-.- My point exactly. Making guns illegal does not stop crime/violence. Notice, you said by over 70%. That still means there's ~25% of the gun incidents still there. They aren't gone.

but knife attacks are less fast deadly and people can defend themself against it.

True, with a knife you can't kill as many people in a short amount of time or from a distance, and an unarmed person stands a better chance against someone with a knife than if they had a gun.

That doesn't change the fact that these incidents are still happening despite that guns are illegal. What did making guns illegal do? It changed the weapon. That's it. All you've done is plug one hole and watched the pressure pop open another hole of the exact same size. Anti-gun laws didn't solve anything.

In America it would have even less of an effect since there are already so many guns here and people unwilling to give them up. It would send loads of people who haven't done anything wrong to jail and make criminals the only ones armed. Disposal would cost a ton, all the new prisoners would cost a ton, police would have a ton more work to do and none of it was necessary or helpful to begin with.

I guess I'll never understand you gun lovers. Smart people like to play with words and idiots like to play with gun.

Let's clear some things up, shall we?

1) Guns aren't evil. What is done with them is done by the people using them. A gun sitting there doesn't go on a rampage randomly and shoot people.

2) Not everyone who likes guns is a redneck with 3 shotguns in the back of their pickup and shoots at whoever disagrees with them. Far from it.

3) Calling someone an idiot because they have a different point of view shows nothing but your own immaturity. Partydevil wants to always rant about America's close mindedness, but really, we aren't alone in self-righteous attitudes.

4) You're naive to think that making guns illegal will prevent violence. All it does is change the weapon and guess what? Guns still exist even if they're illegal.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 3:00pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,109 posts

That doesn't mean everyone who think guns shouldn't be illegal is some redneck who lives in the south and drives a 10 year old pickup with 3 shotguns in the back and hangs antlers over their fireplace.

their are more subcultures that can't handle a gun.
some shaped by violence, some because they are just pathetic.
this is just the most obvious one that even the others find wierd.

People still have guns though.

no they havn't.
it's illegal... -.-'
is it really that hard to see?
then come live over here for 2 years or so. you will find out.

taking a few self defense courses isn't going to change much in the heat of the moment vs someone who would really be trying to cut you with it.

ive seen a reason of a pro-gun guy here that guns are oke because most people have had practice at some point.
that doesn't say anything in the heat of the moment aswell.
so i find this also a valid reasoning.

also you seem to think that all knife incidents are about the guy wanting to stabe. while most of the time it's just to scare people.
if you freeze then then he can do his robbing or whatever. if you dont freeze you can take over or atleast remove the knife from his hands. (or you get your head together after you froze and hit him back when he doesn't expect it anymore.)

in the heat of the moment people freeze. that always happens. heat of the moment should not be taken to any side.

As for dying as fast, that depends on where you're shot/cut.

bullets go deeper and penetrate bones.
knifes themselve can keep you from bleeding dead and safe your life if they are not taken out. (a little more hope there)

Violence/crime rates in a country are dependent primarily upon the country's economic and political stability. Whether there are guns or not does not affect that.

i totally agree whit that. (therefor it has no place in this discussion) it is about the rate of crime not the weapon

but when every house has multiple guns. it is easyer for... let say a teen getting mad over something or adult who lost it's job or watever reason might pop-up. to pick up a gun. (his own or parents/brothers gun) and start rampaging.
then when he 1st has to find out where he could buy a gun. then seek contact whit the person. buy it and then go on a rampage.
by that time the rage he was in is over.
(not to mention the ease of suicide that can come to mind in a matter of seconds for all kinds of reasons. but wich is not what they actually want)

So even if they have the gun, are they going to use it? Perhaps, but same goes for if they were armed with any other type of weapon.

other kinds of weapons are not so utterly easy to handle as a gun. they do not go as fast as a gun. they do not have the range of a gun.

The psychos who are out to kill people are still going to get guns/bombs/whatever to kill people. Making them illegal changes nothing.

but they are easyer to find and identify. as all firearms are coming from the underground and nothing can be distributed by smuggling it along side the legal distribution. because that doesn't exist.

I was referring to an incident like an indiscriminate shooting.

i was referring to a robbery.

They aren't gone.

never said they will be gone.
and i never said that shootings dont happen.

-It changed the weapon. That's it.

-lower medical costs.
-less innocents hit by blind bullets.
-less deaths by homicide.
-some extra income for the people when they could deliver their guns to the police and get some money for it back (economic stimulation)

It would send loads of people who haven't done anything wrong to jail

for owning a gun you dont go to prison. they just take the gun away from you and you get a fine for it in return. only if you have loas of guns and it seems you sell them you get jail.
(in my country the fine for owning a gun is lowerd if you tell who your dealer was)

Disposal would cost a ton

just sell them to africa. thats what you government has always done.
but you can better send them to us stell. they can make something nice out of it =)

none of it was necessary or helpful to begin with.

i would be dead now if my parents had a gun in house somewhere.
so i bet the differ.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 3:32pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

no they havn't.
it's illegal... -.-'

Yes, they do. Obviously they do, because guns don't simply cease to exist because they're now illegal. People still commit crimes with illegal things. Assault rifles are illegal, how did that guy in Oregon get one? :O But they don't exist because they're illegal right?! No one has them! It's a conspiracy!

Seriously...

ive seen a reason of a pro-gun guy here that guns are oke because most people have had practice at some point.

Most people aren't going to accidentally shoot someone else because we've grown up learning what guns can do and have been taught how to handle them in a safe manner.

also you seem to think that all knife incidents are about the guy wanting to stabe. while most of the time it's just to scare people.

I'm laughing now. You do realize this is EXACTLY what we've been trying to tell you about guns? Not all gun incidents are about the guy wanting to shoot someone else. Most of the time it's just to scare people. :O

No different from knives! Just a different weapon! How many times do I have to say this for you to understand?

if you dont freeze you can take over or atleast remove the knife from his hands.

Again, I don't know how many times I need to say this. Not everyone can disarm an opponent like that even with self defense courses.

bullets go deeper and penetrate bones.
knifes themselve can keep you from bleeding dead and safe your life if they are not taken out. (a little more hope there)

Like the guy is just going to leave his knife in you and run away...You're going to bleed to death faster from a large gash than you would a single bullet wound. In the end, you're just being nitpicky on the how.

It doesn't matter if someone is killed by a bullet or a cut. They're still dead. You're ignoring the issue.

but when every house has multiple guns. it is easyer for... let say a teen getting mad over something or adult who lost it's job or watever reason might pop-up. to pick up a gun

1) Not every house has multiple guns.

2) FAR from every teen who gets mad is going to go to such extremes as shooting someone else. For those that do, THEY HAD ANOTHER PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH AND WOULD HAVE TAKEN OUT THAT VIOLENCE IN ANOTHER WAY ANYWAYS.

What can you not understand about this? Murders aren't committed by your every average day person. Just because 100 people have guns doesn't mean 100 guns are going to be fired. It's the crazy people, who regardless of whether they have a gun or not, are going to cause trouble. Making them illegal does NOTHING to stop that except change the likelihood of what weapon was used.

then when he 1st has to find out where he could buy a gun. then seek contact whit the person. buy it and then go on a rampage.
by that time the rage he was in is over.

This is all a random hypothetical by you that has absolutely no bearing to begin with. If it was all a spur of the moment thing, there are plenty of other things available to cause harm with. Kitchen knife, chainsaw, car, homemade bomb, arson, etc. You're just arbitrarily deciding that guns are evil and completely ignoring reality.

other kinds of weapons are not so utterly easy to handle as a gun. they do not go as fast as a gun. they do not have the range of a gun.

Yes, a gun is different from a knife. So are any other number of weapons. Want to ban fire because it can burn down a hospital? A gun can't do that, thus fire must be worse than a gun right?

but they are easyer to find and identify. as all firearms are coming from the underground and nothing can be distributed by smuggling it along side the legal distribution. because that doesn't exist.

I already acknowledged that you can REDUCE the amount. You can't get rid of them entirely, and by making them illegal you AREN'T reducing crime/violence, you're just changing the means.

i was referring to a robbery.

I know you were. However, that was in response to my example which was basically the same thing as the title.

Thanks for admitting the red herring though, I guess.

never said they will be gone.
and i never said that shootings dont happen.

So please explain exactly what making guns illegal does other than reducing the amount of guns and changing what weapons criminals are more likely to have?

-lower medical costs.

Unless you're dead.

-less innocents hit by blind bullets.

More innocents getting assaulted because they aren't likely to have a way to defend themselves.

-less deaths by homicide.

Many more rapes/thefts/assaults and not too many less deaths from homicide.

-some extra income for the people when they could deliver their guns to the police and get some money for it back (economic stimulation)

Loss of money overall due to a partial reimbursement on investments.

for owning a gun you dont go to prison. they just take the gun away from you and you get a fine for it in return

The only valid point you've made this entire thread, and that was simply because I'm not well versed in the UKs policy in what happens to people found with guns.

just sell them to africa. thats what you government has always done.

I'm sorry, when did this turn from why guns shouldn't be legal because people kill others with them to "my real problem is I hate America and I am like a dog with a bone and can't let anything go that has anything to do with it?"

i would be dead now if my parents had a gun in house somewhere.

If your parents were responsible, they wouldn't keep it in a place you knew about and preferably you wouldn't even have known it was there to begin with. Moot point.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 3:54pm

theEPICgameKING

theEPICgameKING

458 posts

How bout we just get rid of guns altogether and go WAAAAY back to throwing stones at eachother? Guns make it extremely easy to kill someone, so you dont have to struggle with your concience as much. Actually picking up a stone and beating someone's brains out tests your morality a lot more. Anyone that can do that...oh my.
All in favor of going back to Stone Age weaponry say Aye. AYE!

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 5:04pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,109 posts

Yes, they do

i thought you mend the common man whit "people", not the criminals.

we've grown up learning what guns can do and have been taught how to handle them in a safe manner.

hahahaha xD good one.
we are talking about usa here remember. not switzerland or austria.

I'm laughing now. You do realize this is EXACTLY what we've been trying to tell you about guns? Not all gun incidents are about the guy wanting to shoot someone else. Most of the time it's just to scare people. :O

but your response is that everyone should have a gun to gun down these people.
my response is that we do nothing at that moment and go to the police who has the job to go after these people.

starting to see the difference now?

No different from knives! Just a different weapon!

if guns and knifes are the same. why don't you go to war whit swords anymore?
the different weapon makes it a different game.

I don't know how many times I need to say this. Not everyone can disarm an opponent like that even with self defense courses.

ignorens

You're ignoring the issue.

your issue is the crime.
ive grown over the crime (as you can't change that 1.2.3.) and issue the way it's done. (or better how the prevention of crime is done)

Not every house has multiple guns.

when everyone has a gun it has.

FAR from every teen who gets mad is going to go to such extremes as shooting someone else.

never said every. i just made up a example.
good job on over rating it.

Murders aren't committed by your every average day person. Just because 100 people have guns doesn't mean 100 guns are going to be fired.

and again have i never said that. plz. stop making conclusions that you think that i make. because your waaaayyyyy off.

and you seem to deny the fact that it does happen. even if it's just 1 out of 10.000. it would safe 1.

If it was all a spur of the moment thing, there are plenty of other things available to cause harm with.

yea, but non as fast and direct as a gun.

(home made bomb? that not a moment thing. if you have a bomb in house for the moment you might lose controle over yourself then you belong in the soft room of a institute allready)

Yes, a gun is different from a knife. So are any other number of weapons. Want to ban fire because it can burn down a hospital? A gun can't do that, thus fire must be worse than a gun right?

are you trying to be stupid now? i know you dont belong to that group but....

you AREN'T reducing crime/violence, you're just changing the means.

i'm not discussing this for the seem needs as you.
you want to reduce the crime/violence over night.
i gave up on that long ago. because wewill never.
i discuss this so that more people can get the opportunity to fight back or atleast give them a higher chanch of surviving when they become victim.
and a firefight is not on my list of fighting back whit the highest chanch of surviving.

So please explain exactly what making guns illegal does other than reducing the amount of guns and changing what weapons criminals are more likely to have?

that change is all.
but that is a change that will benefit the victims. in ways i have explained by now. and are not willing to say again.

Unless you're dead.

dead is dead. i think we can agree on that.
point was about those that do not die but survive.

More innocents getting assaulted because they aren't likely to have a way to defend themselves.

what? =S
because guns are illegal i go stick a knife into someone?
where is the logic in this assumption of yours?

remember, crime rate is primerly caused buy economical and politics.....
just look up that line you posted it makes more sense as what i just wrote...

Many more rapes/thefts/assaults

again a false assumption.
because guns are illegal doesn't make the population more violent. the violency is in your culture. that will need a longer time to get out. prohibiting guns wont change that instantly.

Loss of money overall

the money was lost when you bought the gun.
now it's illegal so be happy you can legally "sell" it to the government.
they could also take them away from you and give you a fine in return.
life is hard. everyone has to take it's losses sometime.

I'm sorry, when did this turn from why guns shouldn't be legal

the moment you wanted money back for the weapons. the whole world sells or give their old guns to africa. the usa is a big player in that. dont be so tip-toed.

If your parents were responsible

yea if everyone in the world was responsible then the world would be a much better place. and this whole discussion wouldn't have to be here
to bad tho that loads of people are not responsible. and that discussions like these are needed.

All in favor of going back to Stone Age weaponry say Aye. AYE!

aye...?

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 6:33pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

we are talking about usa here remember. not switzerland or austria.

Think what you want. Take almost any 8-9 year old and ask them what you should not do with a gun and I'll bet they can give pretty comprehensive answers.

but your response is that everyone should have a gun to gun down these people.

No, it's not. This is what I'm talking about with you either/or attitude. It's not a case of guns being illegal and no one having them and guns being legal and everyone having them.

My stance is that more gun control would help, but making guns flat out illegal is going to cause as many problems as it could potentially fix. I'm not advocating everyone walking around with concealed firearms. I'm also saying that with the proper training and qualifications it can help in dire situations.

Making stuff illegal doesn't get rid of it. It just makes it so any law abiding citizen won't have one.

my response is that we do nothing at that moment and go to the police who has the job to go after these people.

starting to see the difference now?

My response is virtually the same, except I'm not naive. The police can't be everywhere at once, and if people want to go through what should be a strenuous background checks and proper training courses to own a gun then they should be allowed to.

Of course it should be left to the police when possible, but this isn't a perfect world.

the different weapon makes it a different game.

Yes, it does. Your point being? A crime is still a crime whether it's carried out with a gun or a knife. Obviously a gun is considered to be the more dangerous weapon. However, the point you're missing is that THE CRIMINAL DOESN'T CARE IF THE WEAPON THEY HAVE IS LEGAL OR NOT. They're going to use what they can get their hands on.

IF you were arguing that there should be more gun control in general, I would agree with you. You're not, however. You seem to think that labeling something as illegal will fix it. That might have worked, if it had been done 300 years ago before mass production was implemented.

ignorens

I'll assume you mean ignorance. How am I being ignorant? You seem to think that anyone who takes a self defense course or two can suddenly disarm any attacker barehanded. That's what is ignorant.

ive grown over the crime (as you can't change that 1.2.3.) and issue the way it's done. (or better how the prevention of crime is done)

So since baby crap green spray paint is a more hideous color that means that all spray paint that color should be banned because it can be used for more obnoxious graffiti? That's basically what you're arguing.

A crime is a crime. A murder is a murder. Whether it was done with a gun or knife does not change the fact that someone was robbed or killed.

Yes, a gun is more dangerous that a knife.
No, making guns illegal does not help anything.

and you seem to deny the fact that it does happen. even if it's just 1 out of 10.000. it would safe 1.

It would save one from a gunshot death, perhaps.
That doesn't mean that death wouldn't have happened in some other way.

Basically, all you're doing is arguing that a crime committed with a gun is somehow worse than a crime committed with any other type of weapon.

(home made bomb? that not a moment thing. if you have a bomb in house for the moment you might lose controle over yourself then you belong in the soft room of a institute allready)

It was just a list of other types of weapons. I'll grant that making a bomb isn't something you do on the spur of the moment.

are you trying to be stupid now?

I'm glad you think that reasoning is stupid.

Now if you could just pull out a mirror...because that's exactly what you're arguing. It doesn't matter if a murder is committed by a gun or a knife, there was still a murder.

Also, again, making guns illegal does not get rid of them.

you want to reduce the crime/violence over night.

Of course I want to, that doesn't mean I think that can happen.

Anyways, your solution of making guns illegal falls more into that category than what I think needs to be done.

i discuss this so that more people can get the opportunity to fight back or atleast give them a higher chanch of surviving when they become victim.

Yes, I get that's what you want. I'm telling you that making guns illegal doesn't change that.

The UK is an ENTIRELY different place than the USA. Guns are prevalent here. You want to shut the barn door after the horse, cows, chickens and even ****roaches have already run out. It won't change anything.

I've said this before, in a perfect world, no guns would be better. We do not live in that world.

I'm not arguing with you that guns are more dangerous. I'm not arguing with you that guns are often more lethal. I'm not arguing with you that less guns is better.

What I am arguing with you is that making guns illegal will fix nothing.

because guns are illegal i go stick a knife into someone?
where is the logic in this assumption of yours?

I didn't mean dead. If you know the other person is unarmed, you're more likely to get into a fight with them. Doesn't matter if you have a weapon or not, this is just a general thing. You don't mess with the guy who's armed.

because guns are illegal doesn't make the population more violent.

No, it doesn't. What it does do is lower inhibitions because there's less of a threat. A woman who -might- have a gun in her purse is much less of a target than a woman who is entirely unarmed.

the violency is in your culture. that will need a longer time to get out. prohibiting guns wont change that instantly.

It won't just not change it instantly, it won't affect it at all.

the moment you wanted money back for the weapons

Doesn't make any sense, since you started griping about America before I even said that.

the usa is a big player in that. dont be so tip-toed.

I'm not arguing that. That isn't what we're talking about though. You simply used it as yet another ad hominem and a red herring to boot.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 6:50pm

handlerfan

handlerfan

192 posts

The USA banned alcohol and that made the situation worse. But there are controls on alcohol, eg needing proof you are of legal age to buy, and alcohol awareness courses to educate about the dangers of drinking too much.
Therefore banning guns would not work. But the state could do something about regulating the guns in the country. This would not mean the citizen losing the right to bear arms, but there could be checks on gun ownership.
I mean a gun club would be guilty of reckless endangerment if it stored its weapons where any criminal or emotionally fragile person could walk in and just get them. The armed forces are careful with their weapons.Why not the people they are defending.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 8:40pm

thepunisher93

thepunisher93

1,859 posts

The USA banned alcohol and that made the situation worse. But there are controls on alcohol, eg needing proof you are of legal age to buy, and alcohol awareness courses to educate about the dangers of drinking too much.
Therefore banning guns would not work. But the state could do something about regulating the guns in the country. This would not mean the citizen losing the right to bear arms, but there could be checks on gun ownership.
I mean a gun club would be guilty of reckless endangerment if it stored its weapons where any criminal or emotionally fragile person could walk in and just get them. The armed forces are careful with their weapons.Why not the people they are defending.

Give people a time limit to give up their fire arms voluntarily.
After that, start  crackdowns on houses and impose fines where guns are found(along with destroying the guns)
then slowly keep  increasing the punishment for keeping fire arms until the punishment is death.
If some one comes out on streets for his "right to arms" deal with him harshly.
When people see that govrn means business, they back off.(of course this does not mean govrn. should act douchy to people).

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 8:46pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,109 posts

Take almost any 8-9 year old and ask them what you should not do with a gun and I'll bet they can give pretty comprehensive answers.

they can.
but it gets lost when they grow older.

My stance is that more gun control would help, but making guns flat out illegal is going to cause as many problems as it could potentially fix. I'm not advocating everyone walking around with concealed firearms. I'm also saying that with the proper training and qualifications it can help in dire situations.

then the switzerland option is your option.
guns are illegal. but everyone can keep it's weapons after 4 year military duty. (or for how long your military duty is. i dunno)

The police can't be everywhere at once,

there are cameras everywhere these days. they dont need to be there right away. you can go to the police a few hours latter and they still have the duty to find this person.

A crime is still a crime whether it's carried out with a gun or a knife. ...

and a knife is way easyer to dodge and survive then a bullet.
yes the criminal will keep a weapon anyway. but if he knows that his victim most likely does not have a weapon, then why would he use a gun? a knife is much cheaper and the small criminal don't want to spend the money on something expensive as a gun. rather on drugs or whatever they want.

making guns illegal wont change this the next day. it will take years befor this change happens.

IF you were arguing that there should be more gun control in general, I would agree with you.

dont think it came up in this topic. but in a previous one i agreed that under heavy control and bureaucracy, gun permissions should be allowed.
there are always out of the box cases where it will be helpful.

You seem to think that anyone who takes a self defense course or two can suddenly disarm any attacker barehanded.

apart from getting freezed what is a natural response when something like this happens. yes everyone can learn to defend himself against knifes.
it really isn't that hard. you dont need to be big or strong.

Yes, a gun is more dangerous that a knife.
No, making guns illegal does not help anything.

i c that different.

It would save one from a gunshot death, perhaps.
That doesn't mean that death wouldn't have happened in some other way.

Basically, all you're doing is arguing that a crime committed with a gun is somehow worse than a crime committed with any other type of weapon.

no i say a knife or any other type of weapon (except crossbows) are better survivable. and that you should try to make those the criminals fav. weapon and not guns.

i go past the crimes part and move on to the victims survival part. because that is what matters to me. i dont care about the crimes. i care for the victim of it.

It doesn't matter if a murder is committed by a gun or a knife, there was still a murder.

a murder is a murder. if someone really want to kill someone. he will. even if he used a spoon. in those cases it doesn't matter. but like we both stated befor. not all crimes are murder plans to begin whit. i'm talking about the other cases where the criminal is not out for murder. but out for money or whatever.

Of course I want to, that doesn't mean I think that can happen.

but steps in that direction have to be made. right?

your solution of making guns illegal falls more into that category than what I think needs to be done.

now i'm confused... did you just agree whit me. or do i read it wrong?

The UK is an ENTIRELY different place than the USA. Guns are prevalent here. You want to shut the barn door after the horse, cows, chickens and even ****roaches have already run out. It won't change anything.

so you agree whit my other statement that the usa can't be saved anymore?

What I am arguing with you is that making guns illegal will fix nothing.

for that you use crime rates. and i look past crime rates.
they wont change anyway. there are more imported things. like the people.

i know it might sounds wierd from some1 that calls 5 billion deaths tomorrow, a good thing. and for someone that doesn't care about deaths at all. but i like most of the living people.

If you know the other person is unarmed, you're more likely to get into a fight with them.

why fight? you have a knife. and he doesn't.
if you go fight him whit your knife. then it's attempted murder.
coming back to. stabbing someone just because you can.
wich is more then just a robbery.

A woman who -might- have a gun in her purse is much less of a target than a woman who is entirely unarmed

paper spray. non lethal defense FTW!
there are more options to defend yourself then a gun.

Doesn't make any sense

well it does.
in the case the government had allot of guns, befor owned by the public.
instead of making costs for disposal you can sell them. a few million guns can make a nice amount of money. and countries like congo can keep going whit their civil war. just like old times sake.... no?

handlerfan

alcohol and guns are the same now?

the alcohol reason is a good reason for marijuana legalization.
but guns? i never saw someone killing a other guy whit alcohol (well once but that was pure alcohol. not a beer.)

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 9:18pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

they can.
but it gets lost when they grow older.

...no, it doesn't.

there are cameras everywhere these days. they dont need to be there right away. you can go to the police a few hours latter and they still have the duty to find this person.

That doesn't really help in cases of ****/murder.

yes everyone can learn to defend himself against knifes.
it really isn't that hard. you dont need to be big or strong.

Not everyone, but given enough training most could yes. They don't learn in a few classes though, like you've implied previously.

now i'm confused... did you just agree whit me. or do i read it wrong?

I agree with you on an idealistic level. I don't agree with your stance of making guns illegal though.

so you agree whit my other statement that the usa can't be saved anymore?

No, I think that a solution that worked for the UK isn't going to work for the USA because of how prevalent guns are here. It's an entirely different thing to ban something before everyone has it and to ban something after everyone has it.

pepper spray. non lethal defense FTW!

Yes, there is that too.

there are more options to defend yourself then a gun.

I never said there weren't.

the alcohol reason is a good reason for marijuana legalization.
but guns? i never saw someone killing a other guy whit alcohol (well once but that was pure alcohol. not a beer.)

The prohibition thing doesn't carry over well to guns. You don't consume guns and you can't produce guns in your basement. Alcohol and marijuana are fundamentally almost the same thing,

 
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