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Gun control in the US

Posted Oct 29, '13 at 8:43pm

rychus

rychus

1,301 posts

Well, I'm done trying to prove a point to ignorant people. Sure, guns can be bad in places. But you don't need to take the side of the criminal. If they get shot trying to steal something, I am not going to be the one tomourn. They deserved it.

 

Posted Oct 29, '13 at 8:58pm

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

i know americans are raised to try to be the hero all the time. from the lowest beggar to mr.president himself. but it is not needed.

Huh, funny. I've lived in the US for roughly a quarter of a century and never once felt like I was being raised to be a hero or some other sophistry. Now that I think about it, neither has anyone in my family or the families of my friends. Guess all of our parents screwed up and never got the memo back in the day.

hereis one for you:
the possibility you get into a gunfight and die increases greatly by owning a gun and using it against criminals.
on your left had. you co-operate with the criminal and he will get away as soon possible. you stay alive but are missing some money and/or items.
on your right hand. you point a gun at the criminal who in reflex shoots you. now your dead (or crippled for a while if your lucky) and the money and/or items you had are for no use anymore anyway.

- The simple act of owning a firearm has no increase on the chance of fatality in a home-invasion scenario. Also, using one in the aforementioned scenario would only increase your chances of injury on-par with those using a baseball bat or just wandering downstairs unarmed to investigate a strange noise.
- People in general are materialistic and protective of their property. This isn't anything new. If you could somehow travel back in time a thousand years and break into the residence of someone from that time period, they wouldn't just sit in the corner and simper timidly while you plunder all their worldly possessions.
- What kind of scenario is that? What, did you just walk in-front of the invader with gun pointed at them? Or did you politely ask them to turn around and carefully put their hands in the air? Or maybe the invader is a super skilled firearms expert and can, on reflex as you say, squeeze off a shot that manages to mortally wound you? Good to know robbers are now on the same level as highly-trained professionals and superheroes.

Without delving through pages of discussion, is seems safe to surmise that you've never fired a firearm (handgun or otherwise). Or, if you have, you obviously have not had any formal lessons. As the saying goes "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." If the person with a firearm is untrained, then they are their own biggest threat.

The issue at hand should not be whether or not people ought to own firearms, yet instead should be making ****ed sure that those who own firearms are properly trained in the use of such. For some reason, firearms are not held up to the same strictures as other (arguably) lethal possessions. If you own a vehicle and intended to use it, you are required to take courses which educate you about the proper procedures and what-have-you. At the end of those courses you need to take and pass a hands-on exam in the company of an authorized teacher. Your performance directly impacts your chances to either pass or fail.
Yet for most firearms (the kind and amount varies state-by-state), you can just waltz into a Wal-Mart or your local gun store and walk-out with a firearm. No prior training or license required for that shotgun or hunting rifle (or semi-automatic civilian assault weapon).
Not only ought training courses be mandatory for the purchase of a firearm, but these courses ought to require a refresher course every so often (be it every one or five years).

I have no issue with people owning firearms. What I have an issue with is idiots owning firearms. I'd much rather face down a trained assailant armed with a knife than have an untrained moron with a firearm on my 'side'.
 

Posted Oct 30, '13 at 8:51am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,584 posts

Knight

Well, I'm done trying to prove a point to ignorant people. Sure, guns can be bad in places. But you don't need to take the side of the criminal. If they get shot trying to steal something, I am not going to be the one tomourn. They deserved it.

I'm not taking the side of the criminals, nor am I saying they are nice people and should be left alone. Anyone committing a crime should be sentenced for exactly that crime. You're just ignoring the fact that they're still human.

The issue at hand should not be whether or not people ought to own firearms, yet instead should be making ****ed sure that those who own firearms are properly trained in the use of such. For some reason, firearms are not held up to the same strictures as other (arguably) lethal possessions. If you own a vehicle and intended to use it, you are required to take courses which educate you about the proper procedures and what-have-you. At the end of those courses you need to take and pass a hands-on exam in the company of an authorized teacher. Your performance directly impacts your chances to either pass or fail.
Yet for most firearms (the kind and amount varies state-by-state), you can just waltz into a Wal-Mart or your local gun store and walk-out with a firearm. No prior training or license required for that shotgun or hunting rifle (or semi-automatic civilian assault weapon).

^This. I will definitely agree with this.
 

Posted Oct 30, '13 at 4:29pm

danielo

danielo

1,770 posts

In Israel almost no one own a gun and we are just fine. There are no armed robberies of houses or Huns riding villages. How is that?

And yea, i side these criminals - last time i checked, the punishment for theft wasnt an execution. Nor to "invading". Who do you think you are?


You overrate these criminals too much. They are not NPCs or a random encounter. They are P-E-O-P-L-E-S.

 

Posted Oct 30, '13 at 4:43pm

danielo

danielo

1,770 posts

So in USA there are gangs of crazy barbarians who assault house killing rapimg turtoring bikers? And you will defend your beloved ones and property by yourself.

If they realy want to Hunt you, they will. If they dont, you dont need a gun.
Yelling is more then enough.

They are coward. They know very well that an angry house owner mean troubles. They are not GTA or something. They just try to get money.

Your idea of what is a criminal and what he want are twisted. By your definitions. You take the guns and suddenly armed militia of Cannibals take over the good peoples of USA.

And a question - do you realy belive so many Americans have guns, that a bannwill make a diffrunce?

 

Posted Oct 30, '13 at 5:28pm

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

In Israel almost no one own a gun and we are just fine. There are no armed robberies of houses or Huns riding villages. How is that?

And yea, i side these criminals - last time i checked, the punishment for theft wasnt an execution. Nor to "invading". Who do you think you are?


Not to sound brusque, but Israelis have more to worry about than house invasions by armed intruders. The dichotomy between the current situation in the US and Israel makes any valid comparison fall short. Besides, it's been shown throughout history that guns aren't necessary to bring about death and strife.

Furthermore! Despite you claiming to not be taking the side of criminals, you still are giving them quite a large berth when it comes to benefit of a doubt. If someone invades private property (be it a residence, business, etc.) and is armed, then they obviously have some intent to use the weapon. It may not be their main or desired plan. Yet the fact still remains that they broke into a private residence armed.

Also, before you try to argue that they may not be armed, take this into consideration. Someone breaking to a private residence obviously is not in the best financial situation. It's extremely likely that doing such is a last ditch effort to gain a source of revenue. The other possibility is that they are a career criminal who only knows one way to survive, and that one way is breaking the law. Both scenarios do not make for a very level-headed or complacent individual. They are already teetering on the brink and need to make score in order to keep on going. So they bring a weapon in case anything goes awry because there is nothing left to lose.

Yet I don't want to make this into a discussion about the mental state and quality of life of criminals. I just simply wanted to set things straight so that the current discussion about US gun control doesn't turn too far down the path of the worth of human life. That's a totally separate subject. Feel free to make another thread about that if you desire so.
 

Posted Oct 31, '13 at 3:46pm

danielo

danielo

1,770 posts

I never said i dont stand in there side.

Secondely, As i said some 40 pages away i belive, my house was robbed once. Four Beduians were in. My dad came out of his room and yelled and screamed at them. They ran away.

In another case, near Judea and somoron (the hopefuly place of the going to be Palestinian country), there was a case of a robbery. As the population there tend to be armed or atleast have a guarding force, the robbers were armed.
The victim was a Israeli, IDF veteran and a renown commander. They attacked him with an axe and a pitchfork. They murdured him.

When the Criminals know they can get hurt they will defend themselve. They dont want to die. They just want to get money.

And all the talking of "Get 'ff mi Property!"
http://imageshack.com/i/10lbgjpeg4f

So again, your Honor is count more then a poor soul?
You are a bit too paranoid. No one want an assault or a murder case over there head. They wont come in and kill you for your TV. And if they do, well, you dont have a chance. If there goal is you dead then you need more then a gun near your bed.

The sentence "My house my fort" is wrong, long story short.

And a buisness?! Are you serious? Getting killed because of your job?!
And if you mean a "family buisness", i can agree on the need of protection when dealing with large amount of stationery cash. So hire a Guard. A proffesional guard. Who have licsence to carry a gun.

 

Posted Oct 31, '13 at 3:48pm

danielo

danielo

1,770 posts

[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/10lbgjpeg4f][IMG]http://imageshack.com ...
And i accidently reported my own post so... please ignore it o' divine random mod.

 

Posted Oct 31, '13 at 4:00pm

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

Not to sound brusque, but Israelis have more to worry about than house invasions by armed intruders. The dichotomy between the current situation in the US and Israel makes any valid comparison fall short.

Thanks for ignoring those two sentences.

Yet I don't want to make this into a discussion about the mental state and quality of life of criminals. I just simply wanted to set things straight so that the current discussion about US gun control doesn't turn too far down the path of the worth of human life. That's a totally separate subject. Feel free to make another thread about that if you desire so.

And that entire paragraph.
 

Posted Nov 1, '13 at 6:36am

Nerdsoft

Nerdsoft

1,280 posts

Voidy, you are most certainly not qualified to participate in this "debate". Can't you just breathe fire at any robbers?

Joking aside, I can't actually see what our fire-breathing friend's stance is. I guess he's pro-gun control, but... anyway, this is ridiculous. Gun homicides in the US are the highest per capita rate in the developed world by far. There are 88.8 guns per 100 people and 3.2 gun homicides per 100,000 people.
Multiply that by 316 million, the current est. population of the USA, and we have 10,112 people dead every year. I think it's per year, anyway. Contrast that with England and Wales, where it's a shocking 0.07 dead per 100,000 and 41 dead per year.
Multiply that by 6, which is a very generous population estimate... 246 people dead. And stop using the "black market" card. I doubt you could find one. Here's a thought. Go out, buy a pet cat and shoot it. Hard? Okay. Now imagine killing a human. Harder? Yup.
And I know you want to kill the robber. Because deep down, in your twisted American way, you think you're Batman. You think you're a vigilante, silently protecting your city, serving justice where no police can. Hate to burst your bubble, but you're actually just a bedraggled dude in his pyjamas, holding a gun (probably with the safety on) in his shaking hands.
You think that that will be enough to scare him off, because you think he's just a cowardly thief who will run screaming to his mother at the first sign of a serious defence. One, you don't constitute that. And two, he won't. If he panics, he'll shoot you and run off with your money.
Sorry, Batman.

Sources? I'll give you sources. Gun homicide/ownership rates? The Washington Post. US population figures are from census.gov's population clock.

 
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