ForumsWEPRGun control in the US

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theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
906 posts
Blacksmith

Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.)
I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons.
Supporting evidence: the following skit:
What's your reason?
Setting: A gun shop, modern day.
A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please."
The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?"
The Customer says "I need one for personal protection."
The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell."
The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!"
The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left.
Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun."
Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks.
The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting."
The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states.
The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff.
Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says.
The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!"
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves.
Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says.
The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other".
"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?

  • 1,127 Replies
HillOfOak
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HillOfOak
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In reference to why China wouldn't have a gun culture, the answer is strikingly obvious. Any leader/dictator who knows how revolutions work would know that as long as you keep the power out of the peoples' hands you can continue to rule as you see fit (or at least your regime will have a longer life-span depending on how ruthless it is). If you put power back in the hands of the people (especially in a place as large and populous as China), you'd have to cater to the majority to keep your empire stable.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,604 posts
Regent

In reference to why China wouldn't have a gun culture, the answer is strikingly obvious. Any leader/dictator who knows how revolutions work would know that as long as you keep the power out of the peoples' hands you can continue to rule as you see fit (or at least your regime will have a longer life-span depending on how ruthless it is). If you put power back in the hands of the people (especially in a place as large and populous as China), you'd have to cater to the majority to keep your empire stable.


No it isn't. The discussion at hand is that, why, when both nations found their freedom through guns, why is there only a deep love for guns in America? Even if China was under such harsh rule, why was the love of guns not instilled in them through the four decades of warfare for independence?

Why does America itself have such a gun culture, that no other nation has?
SSTG
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SSTG
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Why does America itself have such a gun culture, that no other nation has?

Because half of it's populace is a barbaric savage who likes to feel powerful and collect deadly weapon and shoot them to fuel his power trip.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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I think it's pretty obvious, Nicho. Guns are glorified here, which I guess is something you'll never see for yourself until you actually travle to the US. For some reason, people here see guns as being extraordinarily beneficial - far more beneficial than what they really are. You see movies where guns are the sole tools for man to use to escape any type of situation.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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@SSTG

.....Don't even go there.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Regent

I think it's pretty obvious, Nicho. Guns are glorified here, which I guess is something you'll never see for yourself until you actually travle to the US. For some reason, people here see guns as being extraordinarily beneficial - far more beneficial than what they really are. You see movies where guns are the sole tools for man to use to escape any type of situation.


Yes yes, I know that. But....why? That's my question.
SSTG
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SSTG
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Yes yes, I know that. But....why? That's my question.

You will never understand because you like to think , ask questions and research in order to understand something.
Gun lovers don't think, they have this narrow vision of a violent World (that they helped create) in which you have to hide behind a murdering tool because everyone else is the enemy and he might try to attack you at any time. Soon they'll start collecting bazookas and missile launcher, just in case.
Like I said before, it must be exhausting to live like this.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

Sorry about that. My iPod wouldn't go to page 21 for some reason. I guess you already talked about that. :P

So, why? Because some clever gun-aficionado capitalist somewhere sold guns off as being incredible. Mind manipulation to sell something would be my guess. I mean, this is America, isn't it? That's all we do here. We glorify everything.

Why are fast food salads considered healthy? Why are basketball shoes considered necessary to play basketball? Why do we need all of this stuff? Because we just DO, that's why!

Otherwise, I suppose they were popularized by violence. I mean, nearly every war between 1800 and 1914 were won or loss by having or lacking guns. It's like the basketball shoes thing - people think they need them to do anything sucessful related to violence... or hunting... or just sport.

I'm a huge republican, but even I can agree they're necessary to hardly anyting.

HillOfOak
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HillOfOak
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Peasant

The only answer I can think of as to why would be rooted in the very foundation of the nation. When people lived on the outskirts of colonial America (the Appalachian Mountains and west), guns were what protected you and your family from animals, thieves, etc... And guns were used even later during the time of Manifest Destiny as settlers used guns for hunting and protection against Indians and, again, thieves. Indirectly, you could blame the expansionist mindset of the people of the time. Moving away from established civilization brings more dangers to the table and require forms of self defense.

Also, SSTG, you seem to have a huge bias against guns, to a blatantly offensive level, and your oversights are very condescending and generalized.

Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

You will never understand because you like to think , ask questions and research in order to understand something.
Gun lovers don't think, they have this narrow vision of a violent World (that they helped create) in which you have to hide behind a murdering tool because everyone else is the enemy and he might try to attack you at any time. Soon they'll start collecting bazookas and missile launcher, just in case.
Like I said before, it must be exhausting to live like this.


Not to offend, but have you ever actually shot a gun? It is pretty exciting. I've gone out with my uncle on occasion and blasted pumpkins with his AK-47. It is pretty fun.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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The only answer I can think of as to why would be rooted in the very foundation of the nation. When people lived on the outskirts of colonial America (the Appalachian Mountains and west), guns were what protected you and your family from animals, thieves, etc... And guns were used even later during the time of Manifest Destiny as settlers used guns for hunting and protection against Indians and, again, thieves. Indirectly, you could blame the expansionist mindset of the people of the time. Moving away from established civilization brings more dangers to the table and require forms of self defense.


Well yes, but surely, for the next 200 years, when urban centres were firmly established, why would such an ethos be established? If anything, why doesn't Canada, which is more harsh wilderness than America and certainly having a rich settler history, not have one?
Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Well yes, but surely, for the next 200 years, when urban centres were firmly established, why would such an ethos be established? If anything, why doesn't Canada, which is more harsh wilderness than America and certainly having a rich settler history, not have one?


Canada is much more liberal than America (SSTG is Canadian :P). Anyway, they have more government in their lives. They choose to give up guns to receive protection, I suppose.

I don't know why they're more liberal though. Could it be because they're of France? Is France liberal?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Yeah course. Much of Western Europe is Canada liberal.

Salvidian
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Salvidian
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Blacksmith

Wow. A question was actually answered by majority here. That's why then, I guess.

There's probably more to it, but I don't know much about Canada. If you asked me stuff about Mexico I could answer, but not Canada, haha.

SSTG
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SSTG
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There's probably more to it, but I don't know much about Canada. If you asked me stuff about Mexico I could answer, but not Canada, haha.

Canada isn't perfect but it's a true free country and when you live there, you're not oppressed by crooked companies like the Insurance scammers and the overpriced medications (drug companies thieves) here in the US. Of course if you're really sick, you have a better chance to die because of the people who abuse the system and make it very slow when you're in need of a surgery but at least you won't lose your home.
The government actually cares about it's people and there's no terrorist organization like the NRA there.

Sure there are some gun lovers but they're mostly hunters and they're not obsessed about their guns and they don't see enemies everywhere.
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