ForumsWEPRGun control in the US

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theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
906 posts
Blacksmith

Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.)
I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons.
Supporting evidence: the following skit:
What's your reason?
Setting: A gun shop, modern day.
A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please."
The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?"
The Customer says "I need one for personal protection."
The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell."
The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!"
The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left.
Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun."
Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks.
The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting."
The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states.
The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff.
Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says.
The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!"
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves.
Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says.
The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other".
"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?

  • 1,127 Replies
partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

You will if it's a situation in which a loved one is being threatened, or at least I hope so.


never been in the situation so i can't tell. thus-far ive only responded with violence when they threatened me and my group to be lynched.
but that was because they were out to kill and not out for our possessions.
and i think the same will count for your example. i dont see a reason to play the hero when a loved one of mine is threatened for his/her possessions.
if they however thread her life, then i'll use what ive learned to defend myself. (i dont need a gun for that.) but the same would count if they thread my life instead of just mugging me.

I am twelve.

this site is for 13+
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,604 posts
Regent

Do the statistics account for when the gun is pulled? Do they also account for the scenario?

Part of owning a gun is knowing when to use one, and just as importantly, when not to use one.


I would suppose that they pulled data for recorded crimes.

And please stop going "but what about muggers?". In the UK, you know what a mugging is? Four teenage boys and a knife, taking a wallet and maybe a ring. In the US? A grown person and his/her gun, shooting another person after taking everything they're carrying. In China, I can't even imagine a mugging. My hunting knife got confiscated at Kunming airport. I am twelve.


In China, a mugging doesn't involve a gun. Why? Because guns are tightly regulated. Same for the UK. Why does it for the US? Because the supply and culture of guns have been entrenched over the years, that any effort to control both are far from easy. That doesn't mean that it should be attempted to stop.
Salvidian
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Salvidian
4,229 posts
Blacksmith

Why does it for the US? Because the supply and culture of guns have been entrenched over the years, that any effort to control both are far from easy. That doesn't mean that it should be attempted to stop.


How do you know things aren't better off now than compared to if gun control was issued? I don't think anyone can know for certain.
SSTG
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SSTG
12,677 posts
Templar

Should I throw oil on the fire?
Nah, I'm too busy but it's so tempting.

Salvidian
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Salvidian
4,229 posts
Blacksmith

Feel free SSTG. I'm curious.

SSTG
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SSTG
12,677 posts
Templar

Feel free SSTG. I'm curious.

Don't tempt me Sal.
Okay, you win!
I'm ready to concede that retired cops and DA should have guns for an obvious reasons (street trashes they put in jail) if they can't afford bodyguards but the rest of the populace,no.
Forget this constitution BS, everybody knows it's crap. Wanting to attack the government is totally stupid, no matter how many guns one redneck might own.
When the Republicans vote down a law to control guns that 94% of the people agreed with is pure betrayal and abuse of power.
Who's behind this? Gun makers, criminals with political connection?
Cowards who are obsessed with being massacred in their house, get a big mean dog and a security system if you're so scared you poor cry babies.
Should cops and military personnel have guns? Of course they should have them, that's part of their job!
Finally, why the heck is this thread still going on?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,604 posts
Regent

How do you know things aren't better off now than compared to if gun control was issued? I don't think anyone can know for certain.


Because every nation that has enacted a form of gun control that has been stringent, acted upon, and upheld consistently has shown a downturn in gun violence.

How would we know that clean energy would help the Earth? Or that a policy of meritocracy is best for society? Because they have been replicated in other societies. We can bicker over the intricate differences and gulfs between our nations, but there are enough similarities between the two to justify such a policy.
Nerdsoft
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Nerdsoft
1,271 posts
Shepherd

If it's for 13+, why did my birthday work?

nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,604 posts
Regent

If it's for 13+, why did my birthday work?


It just does. They rely on users to sift out the underage people.
Nerdsoft
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Nerdsoft
1,271 posts
Shepherd

I was under the impression it was PG13.

benman113
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benman113
330 posts
Shepherd

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The second amendment isn't for Protection from criminals, it isn't for hunting and it isn't just to satisfy the stupidity of a person who just wants a gun.
It is for Protection of freedoms, it's so people can protect themselves from oppressive governments foreign or domestic. Yes believe it or not when governments become too big and take too many rights from their people bad things happen. Like The holocaust, Stalin's reign, Maximilian Robespierre's reign of terror and Mao Zedong's great leap forward to name a few.
People who argue to take away gun rights do it under the pretense of safety but those who sacrifice their liberties for safety deserve neither liberties or safety. The founding fathers were fighting one of the largest empire of all time so they weapons that were up to date for their time and actually their weapons were better then the opposing British troops so why shouldn't someone have a weapon that they can fight a military with. Since most armies use assault rifles Machine guns and sniper rifles why can't a person have those same things to defend themselves from that military and it's oppressive government?
Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
326 posts
Shepherd

The second amendment isn't for Protection from criminals, it isn't for hunting and it isn't just to satisfy the stupidity of a person who just wants a gun.
It is for Protection of freedoms, it's so people can protect themselves from oppressive governments foreign or domestic. Yes believe it or not when governments become too big and take too many rights from their people bad things happen. Like The holocaust, Stalin's reign, Maximilian Robespierre's reign of terror and Mao Zedong's great leap forward to name a few.
People who argue to take away gun rights do it under the pretense of safety but those who sacrifice their liberties for safety deserve neither liberties or safety. The founding fathers were fighting one of the largest empire of all time so they weapons that were up to date for their time and actually their weapons were better then the opposing British troops so why shouldn't someone have a weapon that they can fight a military with. Since most armies use assault rifles Machine guns and sniper rifles why can't a person have those same things to defend themselves from that military and it's oppressive government?


I agree. And if gun control is taken to the max, you know who's going to still find and own guns? The bad people. Sure a riot shield is a great thought. Until there are two of them in your home. And how are you supposed to defend the rest of your family or loved ones? Or they come up and use the shield against you. And how is a crossbow different than a gun? You can still kill people with it, very effectively.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
7,111 posts
Grand Duke

It is illusory to think having guns at home will make it safer in case of a break-in. It won't; usually it only escalates things, costing lives (of the house owners).

And assumnig the government took too much power, what are you gonna do? Go out with your measly guns against the well-equipped military? I'd like to see that. Even if you bought whatever weapon you could, you would only slightly delay your inevitable demise.

And yes, criminals may have an easier access to weapons, but restrictions will also affect them. Don't think they will not be affected at all, when suddenly guns cannot be bought in every kiosk around.

dontsmelly
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dontsmelly
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Farmer

If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.

Banning guns will only harm the people who follow the laws. Criminals are already breaking laws, so why would they listen to the anti-gun laws?
partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

Banning guns will only harm the people who follow the laws. Criminals are already breaking laws, so why would they listen to the anti-gun laws?

welcome to the forum.
plz. read up on the topic a few pages befor commenting on it.
we have already done that argument.
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