ForumsWEPRGun control in the US

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theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
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Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.)
I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons.
Supporting evidence: the following skit:
What's your reason?
Setting: A gun shop, modern day.
A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please."
The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?"
The Customer says "I need one for personal protection."
The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell."
The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!"
The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left.
Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun."
Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks.
The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting."
The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states.
The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff.
Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says.
The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!"
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves.
Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says.
The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other".
"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?

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danielo
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danielo
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In Israel almost no one own a gun and we are just fine. There are no armed robberies of houses or Huns riding villages. How is that?

And yea, i side these criminals - last time i checked, the punishment for theft wasnt an execution. Nor to "invading". Who do you think you are?


You overrate these criminals too much. They are not NPCs or a random encounter. They are P-E-O-P-L-E-S.

danielo
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danielo
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So in USA there are gangs of crazy barbarians who assault house killing rapimg turtoring bikers? And you will defend your beloved ones and property by yourself.

If they realy want to Hunt you, they will. If they dont, you dont need a gun.
Yelling is more then enough.

They are coward. They know very well that an angry house owner mean troubles. They are not GTA or something. They just try to get money.

Your idea of what is a criminal and what he want are twisted. By your definitions. You take the guns and suddenly armed militia of Cannibals take over the good peoples of USA.

And a question - do you realy belive so many Americans have guns, that a bannwill make a diffrunce?

Devoidless
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Devoidless
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In Israel almost no one own a gun and we are just fine. There are no armed robberies of houses or Huns riding villages. How is that?

And yea, i side these criminals - last time i checked, the punishment for theft wasnt an execution. Nor to "invading". Who do you think you are?


Not to sound brusque, but Israelis have more to worry about than house invasions by armed intruders. The dichotomy between the current situation in the US and Israel makes any valid comparison fall short. Besides, it's been shown throughout history that guns aren't necessary to bring about death and strife.

Furthermore! Despite you claiming to not be taking the side of criminals, you still are giving them quite a large berth when it comes to benefit of a doubt. If someone invades private property (be it a residence, business, etc.) and is armed, then they obviously have some intent to use the weapon. It may not be their main or desired plan. Yet the fact still remains that they broke into a private residence armed.

Also, before you try to argue that they may not be armed, take this into consideration. Someone breaking to a private residence obviously is not in the best financial situation. It's extremely likely that doing such is a last ditch effort to gain a source of revenue. The other possibility is that they are a career criminal who only knows one way to survive, and that one way is breaking the law. Both scenarios do not make for a very level-headed or complacent individual. They are already teetering on the brink and need to make score in order to keep on going. So they bring a weapon in case anything goes awry because there is nothing left to lose.

Yet I don't want to make this into a discussion about the mental state and quality of life of criminals. I just simply wanted to set things straight so that the current discussion about US gun control doesn't turn too far down the path of the worth of human life. That's a totally separate subject. Feel free to make another thread about that if you desire so.
danielo
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danielo
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I never said i dont stand in there side.

Secondely, As i said some 40 pages away i belive, my house was robbed once. Four Beduians were in. My dad came out of his room and yelled and screamed at them. They ran away.

In another case, near Judea and somoron (the hopefuly place of the going to be Palestinian country), there was a case of a robbery. As the population there tend to be armed or atleast have a guarding force, the robbers were armed.
The victim was a Israeli, IDF veteran and a renown commander. They attacked him with an axe and a pitchfork. They murdured him.

When the Criminals know they can get hurt they will defend themselve. They dont want to die. They just want to get money.

And all the talking of "Get 'ff mi Property!"
http://imageshack.com/i/10lbgjpeg4f

So again, your Honor is count more then a poor soul?
You are a bit too paranoid. No one want an assault or a murder case over there head. They wont come in and kill you for your TV. And if they do, well, you dont have a chance. If there goal is you dead then you need more then a gun near your bed.

The sentence "My house my fort" is wrong, long story short.

And a buisness?! Are you serious? Getting killed because of your job?!
And if you mean a "family buisness", i can agree on the need of protection when dealing with large amount of stationery cash. So hire a Guard. A proffesional guard. Who have licsence to carry a gun.

danielo
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danielo
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[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/10lbgjpeg4f][IMG]http://imageshack.com ...
And i accidently reported my own post so... please ignore it o' divine random mod.

Devoidless
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Devoidless
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Not to sound brusque, but Israelis have more to worry about than house invasions by armed intruders. The dichotomy between the current situation in the US and Israel makes any valid comparison fall short.

Thanks for ignoring those two sentences.

Yet I don't want to make this into a discussion about the mental state and quality of life of criminals. I just simply wanted to set things straight so that the current discussion about US gun control doesn't turn too far down the path of the worth of human life. That's a totally separate subject. Feel free to make another thread about that if you desire so.

And that entire paragraph.
Nerdsoft
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Voidy, you are most certainly not qualified to participate in this "debate". Can't you just breathe fire at any robbers?

Joking aside, I can't actually see what our fire-breathing friend's stance is. I guess he's pro-gun control, but... anyway, this is ridiculous. Gun homicides in the US are the highest per capita rate in the developed world by far. There are 88.8 guns per 100 people and 3.2 gun homicides per 100,000 people.
Multiply that by 316 million, the current est. population of the USA, and we have 10,112 people dead every year. I think it's per year, anyway. Contrast that with England and Wales, where it's a shocking 0.07 dead per 100,000 and 41 dead per year.
Multiply that by 6, which is a very generous population estimate... 246 people dead. And stop using the "black market" card. I doubt you could find one. Here's a thought. Go out, buy a pet cat and shoot it. Hard? Okay. Now imagine killing a human. Harder? Yup.
And I know you want to kill the robber. Because deep down, in your twisted American way, you think you're Batman. You think you're a vigilante, silently protecting your city, serving justice where no police can. Hate to burst your bubble, but you're actually just a bedraggled dude in his pyjamas, holding a gun (probably with the safety on) in his shaking hands.
You think that that will be enough to scare him off, because you think he's just a cowardly thief who will run screaming to his mother at the first sign of a serious defence. One, you don't constitute that. And two, he won't. If he panics, he'll shoot you and run off with your money.
Sorry, Batman.

Sources? I'll give you sources. Gun homicide/ownership rates? The Washington Post. US population figures are from census.gov's population clock.

Devoidless
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Devoidless
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Gun homicides in the US are the highest per capita rate in the developed world by far. There are 88.8 guns per 100 people and 3.2 gun homicides per 100,000 people.


In 2011, there were 29,757 fatal accidents involving vehicles. The fatalities per 100,000 population? 10.39.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Vehicles are nearly three-times as deadly as firearms. We should probably regulate those first.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Vehicles are nearly three-times as deadly as firearms. We should probably regulate those first.

As you stated last page, vehicles are already more regulated than guns. Saying there is no need to regulate guns as they cause less deaths would be a wrong conclusion.
Devoidless
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Devoidless
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Saying there is no need to regulate guns as they cause less deaths would be a wrong conclusion.

Saying that I'm saying there is no need to regulate guns would be putting words in my mouth.

In my super sleep-deprived mind, the point was supposed to be that posting statistics isn't going to do anything. If I really wanted to, I could post statistics all day long. Yet what would be the point?
Also, I think I was going to mention something about it doesn't matter how much something is regulated due to people just being idiots/prone to unfortunate incidents.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Also, I think I was going to mention something about it doesn't matter how much something is regulated due to people just being idiots/prone to unfortunate incidents.

People are idiots/prone to unfortunate incidents, yet I think it does matter how much something is regulated. It will never, ever, get you rid of the problem; but it does have an effect. Be it only 5-10% less deaths (totally invented those numbers).

The question is, is there only this one effect or do the regulations have other effects, maybe unwanted? I think that in the case of guns, there are not enough reasons to let firearms be so unregulated.
Nerdsoft
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Nerdsoft
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Vehicles are nearly three-times as deadly as firearms. We should probably regulate those first.

What?! But don't you know that ram-raids of your house can be stopped by getting into your car?
partydevil
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partydevil
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Thanks for ignoring those two sentences.

dont act like you dont ignore the sentences you rather not respond on. xD
why i leave this topic alone again now. =)
Devoidless
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Devoidless
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dont act like you dont ignore the sentences you rather not respond on.

Then people shouldn't post in the forum meant for debates and discussions if they are going to cherry-pick what to respond to.
danielo
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danielo
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Then people should post in the forum meant for debates and discussions if theyare going to cherry-pick what to responed to

Thats what im doing!


BTW, my main fear from gun is not the paranoid house owners who shoot mexican who get too close to there property.
My fear is from these "Anti-government" peoples, like the shooter from Los-angels, who wanted to kill "security mans and pigs". These wierdos who belive thw government is after them, and who took Matrix and vendeta to seriously.
Retards...
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