ForumsWEPRPetition To Deport Piers Morgan; "Libertarian" Debate

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NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,063 posts
Farmer

Currently, there is a petition going around to deport Piers Morgan back to Britain.

British Citizen and CNN television host Piers Morgan is engaged in a hostile attack against the U.S. Constitution by targeting the Second Amendment. We demand that Mr. Morgan be deported immediately for his effort to undermine the Bill of Rights and for exploiting his position as a national network television host to stage attacks against the rights of American citizens.


I am a libertarian.

Normally, I wouldn't bother with this kind of news. I highly doubt anything will happen with this petition, and I'm confident Morgan won't be deported. However, two libertarians I am subscribed to have expressed their support for Morgan's deportation, and even more libertarians expressed their support in the comments. I believe their support goes completely against libertarian principles, to a point where I feel they have undermined their own philosophies on the first amendment completely. Luckily, I'm not the only libertarian to oppose this petition!

This rant is aimed towards libertarians and those who value the constitution. If you feel out of place since you're not a libertarian, or you don't have an opinion on what I'm talking about, feel free to comment on the petition itself.

...

Libertarians greatly value the constitution, especially the first handful of amendments.

Piers Morgan talked about how American's should repeal the 2nd amendment. Many people feel this is an attack on the 2nd amendment, which justifies government taking action against Mr. Morgan. The very first thing that might pop in your head is, "What about the first amendment that protects freedom of speech and press?" Sine Morgan is not a U.S. citizen, everyone argues that the constitution doesn't protect him.

Libertarians should value Morgan's freedom of speech, regardless as to whether he's protected by the constitution or not. The reason freedom of speech exists is because we can't trust the government to dictate what should and should not be said. If someone is wrong, it's up to the people to debunk such ideas themselves. It's based off the idea that no matter how many people oppose an idea, the minority who do support said idea might just be right, and they might just need freedom of speech to spread their idea. But what does any of this have to do with Piers Morgan?

The idea that Piers Morgan should be deported is based off the fact that he's not a U.S. citizen. But, I must ask, why does it matter if he's a U.S. citizen or not? Just because he was born on a different plot of soil, he shouldn't be allowed to speak his mind? Many people argue that Morgan is trying to change laws that effect citizens, without being one himself. This argument is very poor, because we don't support censoring foreigners who tell American's to change their laws on British soil, do we? His location is irrelevant.

...

A few people have pointed out that what Piers is doing is an act of sedition. Again, this argument is completely bunk from a libertarian perspective. We must recognize that sedition is based off of action, not one's citizenship. If Morgan's speech is an act of sedition, then anyone who shares his views and spreads them are also committing an act of sedition regardless of citizenship. If speaking against the 2nd amendment is sedition, and it justifies deporting a foreigner, then it also justifies the arrest of American citizens.

Already, you can tell that sedition is a form of censorship. So far, one person has admitted that if Morgan was a citizen, he should be put on trial. This raises yet another point. What counts as an act of sedition? Trying to convince people and the government to change the 2nd amendment?

The evidence the 1st amendment protects people who speak against the constitution can be seen in Article 5.

Article 5 - Amendment

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


Clearly, the constitution describes a way in which the constitution may be altered. If nobody is allowed to convince the government to change the constitution, why would the very constitution give the government the power to make changes to itself (the constitution)?

It would make no sense what-so-ever to have Article 5 if the Constitution is to never be altered, or if altering the Constitution is to never be discussed.

To sum up this argument, you can't deport Morgan for sedition without charging citizens who share those views of the same thing. If you charge the citizens of sedition because they spoke about changing the 2nd amendment, then you are breaking the 1st amendment.

There's my rant.
  • 37 Replies
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,239 posts
Peasant

Darn and blast! And we just managed to get rid of the blighter...

Normally I'd be firmly against such a blatantly sensationalist motion. But as a Brit who has had to suffer from his so called 'journalism' for years I empathise deeply with these libertarians. The man is insufferable and I don't blame them for wanting him gone yesterday.

(To clarify I agree that the arguments put forward for his deportation are ridiculous. I shouldn't worry though, pretty soon his big mouth will land him in a scandal large enough in scale to send him packing elsewhere to peddle his nonesense.)

handlerfan
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handlerfan
194 posts
Peasant

I want Piers Morgan to stay in the USA because I live in England and I am glad that we are rid of this blot on the landscape while he is the other side of the Atlantic. I am also glad that we are free of Bill O'Reilly and that crazy man with blonde hair. Is it Hannity?

Devoidless
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Devoidless
3,712 posts
Scribe

How does that really add to the conversation? That's a (seemingly and near blatantly) biased opinion not backed up by anything. It's fine to have opinions about than things, don't get me wrong. Yet here in the WEPR they don't have a place especially when it is presented with no factual backing.

wontgetmycatnip
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wontgetmycatnip
95 posts
Shepherd

Quite a few people support censorship when it comes to protecting the 2nd amendment. To them, speech is being abused to take away the rights of others, leaving said people defenseless. I argued that we must fight lies and misinformation with what we believe is truth, not censorship.

Not just the second amendment. It seems that an awful lot of political groups these days seem to demand censorship of their opponents.
handlerfan
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handlerfan
194 posts
Peasant

I am asked, I gave you Americans a view from overhere. I have little interest in your 'libertarian' debate except that we might get Mr Morgan back. I apologise if I upset the moderator. I assert that I made a humorous comment. I have made my joke and I will now let you chaps get on with the serious stuff.
I admit that I am biased against Piers Morgan, and I am one of many. I back up my bias with my experience of the man. Tara

Mickeyryn
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Mickeyryn
278 posts
Farmer

Morgan is such a nut-head and a rage-machine. I think he should be deported. If he doesn't like this country, he can get the hell out of it. On his Facebook (or Twitter, maybe) he said he wants to get deported, and he doesn't care. But that is exactly what he wants.

partydevil
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partydevil
5,168 posts
Bard

I think he should be deported. If he doesn't like this country, he can get the hell out of it.


that would be his own choise. to leave because he doesn't like it.

did he say he doesn't like the country? or did he say that this guns rights thing is utterly BS?

is it oke to deport someone because of his opinion on the matter, and that he said it in the faces of those people that are to blame for this BS guns rights?
if so then may i ask where your beloved freedom of speech went to?
or is freedom of speech only for those whit a american passport?
either way it's totally retarded.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,610 posts
Regent

I think he should be deported. If he doesn't like this country, he can get the hell out of it. On his Facebook (or Twitter, maybe) he said he wants to get deported, and he doesn't care. But that is exactly what he wants.


Well, then you have alot of people to deport. Deporting someone for such a daft reason is just.....daft. And hypocritical.
Tactical_Fish
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Tactical_Fish
780 posts
Scribe

Honestly, I don't know who this Morgan guy is, and I'm not a libertarian. However, I would like to say that these petitions are getting way out of hand. If he doesn't like the second amendment, that's his business. But we have a freedom of speech, and he can say whatever he wants without getting deported. This is just ridiculous. Even though he's not a citizen, It's not like he's giving away military secrets or anything. He can speak his mind.

thebloxxer
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thebloxxer
28 posts
Peasant

Tactical, to put it simply he is a British journalist and televsion host currently working here in the US. Not sure what grounds this petiton has though since we have the 1st Amendment.

09philj
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09philj
2,876 posts
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Morgan is such a nut-head and a rage-machine. I think he should be deported


If that is the reason you want him deported from the US, why didn't you campaign for George W. Bush to be deported too?
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,239 posts
Peasant

Things likethis give me faith in the eminent sensibleness of my fellow islanders. Duly signed by yours truly.

On a serious note, a comment left on the Guardian's article really hits the nail on the head for me:

''And isn't it funny how Americans are always boasting about the protection their constitution affords to free speech - but as soon as someone says something they don't like they want to get rid of them.''

Obviously this is a generalisation. I can see plenty of Americans on here defending him and hats off to you. But I think it is rather odd how quickly the American right wing in particular cherry pick the constitution as and when it suits them. I would think the founding fathers would be appalled by the original petition (and indeed the use of assualt rifles for 'self defence' but let's not go there for now).

nichodemus
online
nichodemus
14,610 posts
Regent

The really sad thing is that the real issue at hand, guns, has been reduced to a mere hate, mud slinging, no holds bar affair on Piers. Way to go, muppets.

BritHennerz
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BritHennerz
408 posts
Farmer

To be honest I'd rather Piers Morgan stays in the US, we don't want him here.

Avorne
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Avorne
3,103 posts
Shepherd

Look, we'll pay you if we have to, just keep Piers there - please?

I mean... Uh... thinko***oodpoint thinko***oodpoint thinko***oodpoint.

Ah!

Just because someone advocates the removal of one right, and you disagree with their opinion, doesn't mean you can break another right in order to have rid of them.

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