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Armor Games Mascot

Posted Feb 16, '13 at 2:28pm

Cenere

Cenere

12,941 posts

Knight

Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsible. It's ferrets, after all.

 

Posted Feb 16, '13 at 2:48pm

Ferret

Ferret

5,740 posts

Administrator

Welp, there can be no complaints that ferrets aren't related to Armor Games now... My guess is that halberds would be their weapons of choice.  Look how happy he is!

 

Posted Feb 16, '13 at 3:13pm

Cenere

Cenere

12,941 posts

Knight

irresponsibly

English is hard.

Anyway, just for the sake of it:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/Cerene_Cerine/IMG0063_zps5e0bdfa4.jpg

The wonders of armoured animals.

My guess is that halberds would be their weapons of choice.  Look how happy he is!

The thought of ferrets with any kind of weapon scares me a little.
Even if they are happy.

 

Posted Feb 16, '13 at 5:43pm

Freakenstein

Freakenstein

8,141 posts

Moderator

Or their distant cousins the Meerkat, whose group name is mob, gang, or clan, and enjoy gang-to-gang combat raids to gain control of territory.

 

Posted Feb 17, '13 at 6:42pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

3,950 posts

It's ferrets, after all.

They're. English is still hard. ;D

But yeah. Armored ferrets. Yes.

 

Posted Feb 17, '13 at 7:21pm

Reton8

Reton8

2,623 posts

Moderator

An armoured animal. I'm all for it.
But I feel like they would would better as mascots if they were more anthropomorphic and simplistic in style.

It's ferrets, after all.

It's sounds correct to me. Using the word It conveys a broader  sense of the topic at hand (which is ferrets) instead of referring directly to the animal.

 

Posted Feb 17, '13 at 7:50pm

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

It's sounds correct to me. Using the word It conveys a broader  sense of the topic at hand (which is ferrets) instead of referring directly to the animal.

It (is) implies only one subject, while they (are) implies many. Since the direct object (ferrets) is plural, the latter would be correct.

Sorreh; I love getting technical sometimes.

 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 1:04am

Reton8

Reton8

2,623 posts

Moderator

It (is) implies only one subject, while they (are) implies many. Since the direct object (ferrets) is plural, the latter would be correct.

I can't decipher this it rule. Basically the rule would be that it cannot be used as an impersonal pronoun (or be the subject of a sentence) without a prior use of a different noun for the subject and that noun must occur within the same sentence. With the exception when it refers to time, weather, or distance.

I keep seeing this, but no explanation as to why it must refer to time, weather or distance. This leads me to believe it has to refer to time, weather, or distance, when used impersonally, but I am having trouble finding a source to clarify and verify this.

Anyway, if it can be used impersonally (and be the subject of a sentence when not referring to time, weather,or distance) then you are half right. They're is totally correct in the sentence. But  if it is referring to the irresponsibility of the ferrets the sentence is be correct both ways.

If, it can only refer to time, distance, or weather, when used impersonally, then you are completely right. But as a slang sentence, It's ferrets after all would still be a commonly heard type of sentence and would be something used by native speakers to English.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_(pronoun)rn

The word and term 'it' can be used for either a subject or an object in a sentence and can describe any physical or psychological subject and / or object.

"Everyone got its legs kicked or its feet trodden on in the scramble to get out of the carriage."

Also, this from the book Correct Writing Book; Sixth Edition (1995):

Collective Nouns:
Collective nouns are singular in form but plural in meaning. These nouns may take either a singular or plural verb: if you are thinking of the group as a unit, use a singular verb. If you are thinking of the individual members of the group use a plural verb.

Examples:
The crew is striking for higher pay. [The  crew is acting as a unit.]

The crew are writing reports of the wreck. [The members of the crew are acting as individuals.]
(p. 147)

Collective Nouns as Antecedents:
With collective nouns use either a singular or plural pronoun according to the meaning of the sentence.

Examples:
The team elected Jan as its captain. [The team is acting as a unit and therefore requires the singular possessive pronoun its.]

The team quickly took their positions on the field. [Here each member of the team is acting individually.]
(p. 158)

[I wanted to show collective pronouns, because they cause some very odd sounding, yet correct English sentences. Usually such sentences are rephrased like the the crew are example could just have read, "The crew members are writing reports of the wreck." Which sounds less awkward.]

Impersonal Use of the Personal Pronoun:
Remember that pronouns are frequently used impersonally and when so used do not have antecedents. Notice the correct impersonal use of it in the statements about weather, time, and distance:

It looks like rain. [Reference to weather.]

It is now twelve o'clock. [Reference to time.]

How far is it to the nearest town? [Reference to distance.]
(p. 167)

So,
Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's ferrets, after all.

I supposes ferrets couldn't be a collective noun. I don't think someone would ever say,"The ferrets is making a home." And, even though they are acting as a unit, the sentence is incorrect. The word are would have to be used.

But,

Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's ferrets, after all.

could be read as:

Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's their type of lifestyle, after all.

Irresponsibility is the antecedent and noun that it is referring to. Irresponsibility is not directly in the first sentence, but can be derived from it. Irresponsibility is a singular noun. Therefore, "It's there type of lifestyle, after all." is correct and so are the sentences Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's ferrets, after all.

The sentence could read:
Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. Irresponsibility is their type of lifestyle, after all.
Which avoids ambiguity from It's.

Search something like it's cars on Google. Plenty of results and the same singular/plural arrangement (singular it with plural cars). (You can even search "it's cars, after all".)

So the second sentence is either correct or slang. But even as slang it's a common occurrence form native speakers.

I post this, because I rarely speak a second language out of fear of being laughed at how miserable I am at it. So, when I see a "correction" to a sentence without the qualifier that the sentence could still be correct (or at least commonly used, although grammatically incorrect) I get really irked. It's a great way to deter people from using a second language.

 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 5:30am

Strop

Strop

10,823 posts

Moderator

Having read all that I still don't know what the appropriate construction would be, but I know that anecdotally, a lot of people these days would say "it's ferrets, after all".

Looks like you uncovered a different difficulty of English than you thought you were pointing out, eh, Sal?

Anyway, the real reason I was making this post was to say GET BACK ON TOPIC!

 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 10:10am

jeol

jeol

3,565 posts

But as a slang sentence, It's ferrets after all would still be a commonly heard type of sentence and would be something used by native speakers to English.

I've never heard it stated like that. It probably would have bothered me greatly if I said 'it is ferrets' given the exclusive properties of that statement.

"Everyone got its legs kicked or its feet trodden on in the scramble to get out of the carriage."

I think it would be referring to everyone, personally, got its legs kicked. That sort of makes sense. In that case, it's (or should I say, its is) also possessive, whilst 'it is ferrets' is not.

I supposes ferrets couldn't be a collective noun. I don't think someone would ever say,"The ferrets is making a home." And, even though they are acting as a unit, the sentence is incorrect. The word are would have to be used.

That's practically what I was thinking. If 'ferrets' was referring to a specific group or surname where the 's' did not refer specifically to a plural, for instance when an object like 'family' is directly implied:

"The Lyons [family] is a great bunch."

I'm pretty sure that 'ferrets' was referring to the group-animal ferrets, in which case a reference to ferrets would be a plural instance in that the group is based off there being multiples of a certain name, not a certain name under multiples... Do you catch my drift? I feel as though 'everyone' would be the latter.

Irresponsibility is the antecedent and noun that it is referring to. Irresponsibility is not directly in the first sentence, but can be derived from it. Irresponsibility is a singular noun. Therefore, "It's there type of lifestyle, after all." is correct and so are the sentences Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's ferrets, after all.

That's not really how I gathered it, very much at all. It seemed to me more like "It's their nature being ferrets, after all." "their* type of lifestyle" would be more of the case that they're more dependent on lifestyle and not on them being ferrets, which likely is not the case. They have a choice to change their lifestyle, but they can't make themselves not be ferrets. I suppose you could look at it as irresponsibility being tempting, but in direct correlation with ferrets it doesn't make all that much sense to me. So, in conclusion, I see that the sentence must come out one of two ways:

Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. They're ferrets, after all. (Referring directly to ferrets, and their tendency to be irresponsible. Kind of a redundant statement put together, but oh well.)

Ferrets like to live their lives irresponsibly. It's irresponsibility, after all. (Referring directly to irresponsibility, because one could see the temptation to live your life irresponsibly. The less redundant statement of the two.)

Heh, sorry, Strop. Thanks for the discussion, Reton8. :D

 
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