ForumsThe TavernTabletop RPG Combat System That I Made, Need Revision

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hardigra
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hardigra
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OK, so I'm making a tabletop Role Playing Game, and I wanted to sort of make my own combat system.
I have sort of a rough draft, and I need help revising it so it can become better and have less flaws. If you could help me that would be great.
How it works
This system is largly automatic, so players don't really get to control their every action in combat. However, they can set a sort of auto attack pattern so they can control their character to a certain degree. If they character takes a substantial amount of damage, then i do let them control whether they choose to flee, keep fighting, use a potion, ect.... I do this because if you die in this game setting, then you really can't come back, which might be strict or harsh, but it would make people make better decisions with their character and they would sort of 'bond' with it.
Anyways, players hit points (or hearts) are in the range of 2-4. 2, for the more frail classes (like wizard or rouge) and 4 for the more tanky classes like the Guardian.
At the start of the battle, players would roll a d20, or i would for them, and the enemy would roll this also a d20. This detirmines who goes first at the start of the battle (kind of like rolling initiative in D&D). If they get the same number, then monster goes first. (also kind of cruel on the players, but then again, most likely the monster will know their own territory you're invading) If it is Player vs Player Combat, then i just re-roll.
So lets say Bob the Builder is facing an evil creature, lets say the Keebler elf. Bob rolls a 14 for his initiative and Keebler rolls a 4. Bob goes first.
Bob's player attacks the Keebler elf. Bob's To-Hit-Bonus (or THB) is a +3 (that +3 comes from his weapon, lets say a rusty shovel). So he rolls another d20, lets say 10, and adds his +3 THB, along with any other bonus, and that would be his total Attack Value. In this case its 13.
The Keebler Elf does the same thing, and adds his To-Block-Bonus (TBB), usually coming from armor or potions. So lets say that Keebler gets like a 16. He would have blocked the attack, therefore ending Bob's turn and giving Keebler an attempt to strike now.
But let's say Bob got like an 18, so he beat Keebler's 16. He would deal one heart of damage to Keebler(or depending on the type of weapon he has he might do more). Normal low level creatures have one heart, so Keebler would be dead and Bob would loot the elf's cookies and sweets in his inventory.
On the roll of a 1 or 20, that is an automatic critical or failure. On a 20, you automatically block the attack or hit the target. On a one, well, you can probably guess that you automatically miss the target or don't block the attack. If both people get a 20, or if both people get a 1, then that is a stalemate and the round is over and its the next person's turn.

That should be all..... There is no leveling up in this system for different reasons, but you do keep track of your xp for questing purposes, like you might need an xp count for doing a certain quest or task.
You do't gain any xp for killing a foe or completing a task that is extreamly easy to you, that way farming low level people is reduced.
Ok, feedback is well wanted and if I didn't mention something clearly, comment and i will make it clearer.

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BlazingZelda
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my comment from just one scan through, is that when you get better equipment and get bonuses like plus 15. The die roll has less effect than it does when you get plus 1.

hardigra
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hardigra
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Hmm this is true...
Maybe if the Attack roll worked like a percentage increase to your THB, then it would be better
Like you said if i had plus 15 and i rolled a 7, then that would increase my THB by 35% (if max is 20, 20 x 5 is 100, so 7x 5 =35)
So that would be about 5, rounding down as a bonus....
So your THB would be 20.
Thank you nice advice.

dragonball05
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Well from the few times I attempted playing D&D (attempted because the friends I tried with eventually moved on to other things), I recall items like weapon and armor having a set amount, yes, but rather than it always being a +whatever, it was a certain sized die, allowing for a mistaken swing to also be taken account into the natural strength or other factoring attribute need more prevalence as well. To me, it seems like you tried to simplify things, which is good, but almost over simplified it, making it hard to make much progress.

The not leveling thing is fine. However, depending on how high you plan on making enemy hp, 2-4 hp for all characters could cause potential death to even a seasoned veteran of your gaming world. Possibly up the hp, even for the weak enemies as well, since another point is that these battles wouldn't last very long.

Also, I think maybe blocking should deal with a percentage of armor or something like that. Say the d20 is based on 5% per number, that effective % being applied to the armor rating in some way. Maybe not 5% for each if you're inexperienced with the armor, or something like that. Then the second die mentioned earlier (and I mean like d4-10 or something like that depending on the quality of the weapon) could be the actual damage. If you wanted to start out low with blocking and attacking bonuses, you could even start with a coin flip as a "d2."

That stuff may not fit in with how you wanna do things, but hopefully it at least gives you some ideas.

xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
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Anyways, players hit points (or hearts) are in the range of 2-4. 2, for the more frail classes (like wizard or rouge) and 4 for the more tanky classes like the Guardian.


what about a battle-mage/red mage?

There is no leveling up in this system for different reasons


i would like to hear these reasons.

(like wizard or rouge) and 4 for the more tanky classes like the Guardian.


any other classes?

what about races, special abilities for each class AND race, something to get more life/hearts, learning new abilities/spells everytime you complete five heavy tasks in a row or something like that (would be a great reason for levels) and something like a class-change (rogue to ninja, wizard to battle-mage, priest to paladin, healer to cleric, warior to weaponmaster, archer to magic archer and guardian to shield-fighter/defender (a warior who has a high defence and who uses razor sharp blade-shields as weapons). not to forget the druid, the necromancer and all the other classes...
hardigra
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hardigra
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The not leveling thing is fine. However, depending on how high you plan on making enemy hp, 2-4 hp for all characters could cause potential death to even a seasoned veteran of your gaming world

Different bonus's like equipment abilities ect will boost your max Hearts, along with quests and xp... I do plan on this being a hard game, so that people 'bond' with their characters and don't make stupid decisions like deciding to try to take down some hard beasts with poor equipment and stats. It will make you more careful
(look at the third post, I kind of touch up on THB and TBB related to percentages)

what about a battle-mage/red mage?

Regular Mages (along with all the classes) Can take paragon paths once they get to a certain xp count. Priest-->Warpriest or Healer, Mage--> Blue Mage or Red Mage ect.

i would like to hear these reasons.

For realism and originality. If people are fighting a hard boss and they kill it and one 'levels up', the problem is that in cliche rpgs and on the standard of lvling up is that there is some sudden flash of life, the player is healed, they automatically learn new abilities and a boost of stats.. I don't see this as being realistic. Sure he (and his party) would gain the xp for killing it and get the drops but the idea of leveling up just doesnt appeal to me. Also, not many games deny leveling up (at least that I've played) and the games that people play are the ones that are different, original and stick out from the rest of the gaming crowd.
any other classes?

There are 15 classes. They are posted on my page, but if you want a full character class analysis then i would be happy to give it to you.
Concering Races.... I do plan on adding races in due time--- I want to get the groundwork for the game set out and after the beta test if players really wwant more races, then i will certainly add them. Personally, I LOVE CUSTOMIZATION. Thats why I made 15 classes. There should be one for everyone, not to mention more paragon options at higher xp counts. And if there isn't? I will add more and more!

Hope this helps justify myself.
But one real problem that i have is how to handle party battles.
dragonball05
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But one real problem that i have is how to handle party battles.


Yeah, that is always a problem. Lack of consistency can lead to issues later. You'll probably want a speed skill to determine order of attacks, and possibly frequency, like a person with 5 speed attacks twice, then the enemy with 2 speed attacks, then the player twice more, then a coin flip for who takes their final attack in the series of attacks first, then the pattern repeats. Or it could be/probably should be with this system, another dice roll percentage thing. Speed determines the size of the die, and then the die is rolled, showing who in that round attacks when, simply one attack per round could suffice as well.

As for the problem of if players (assuming you ARE doing this on the forums) are gone for one reason or another, that halts the progress of their company. So, maybe set a time limit. Two days before your attack gets skipped. Or, have the company discuss and possibly allow another to temporarily control that character while the player is away for their reasons, and then if they don't come back, you keep controlling them until out of the place you're in danger. Once safe, you drop off the missing player in the town, and if they return, they missed out on the loot and can join back in the action.
xAyjAy
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For realism and originality. If people are fighting a hard boss and they kill it and one 'levels up', the problem is that in cliche rpgs and on the standard of lvling up is that there is some sudden flash of life, the player is healed, they automatically learn new abilities and a boost of stats..


you could make it so that everyone can level up (if you want to use xp) but so that they will not get their health/hearts restored. you could add special gear/weapons/items that require a certain level so a low-level player can not use it.

for the abilities, you could make it so that they need to learn something (like training or studying) but so that they need a required level to be able to study/train it.

also, their stas would not rise when they level up. the only benefit to level up is that the players can buy better items/weapons/gear, enter new areas and to be able to learn new abilities by studying and/or training them.
hardigra
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hardigra
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Well, then what is the point of leveling up? Prestige?

hardigra
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hardigra
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Yeah, that is always a problem. Lack of consistency can lead to issues later. You'll probably want a speed skill to determine order of attacks, and possibly frequency, like a person with 5 speed attacks twice, then the enemy with 2 speed attacks, then the player twice more.......

for the abilities, you could make it so that they need to learn something (like training or studying) but so that they need a required level to be able to study/train it.



You can learn different speed skills in the game You just need to find the mentor. Usually you have to do a quest for the trainer before he trains you. If the skill is good, then the quest will be hard. This way there is no need for an xp prerequisite, If the player can complete the quest he will get the skill. (For fairness, you couldnt do the quest with someone of a higher xp count than you. That way you wont have somebody with an xp for 400 assist a n00bs in quest, which could make it easier.)
BlazingZelda
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So no lvling up you just have exp? I don't get it...

spikeabc
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READ THIS YOU MIGHT FIND THIS HELPFULL

At the start of the battle, players would roll a d20, or i would for them, and the enemy would roll this also a d20. This determines who goes first at the start of the battle (kind of like rolling initiative in D&D).


first off: initiative is rolled and determined by d6, not d20

Bob's player attacks the Keebler elf. Bob's To-Hit-Bonus (or THB) is a +3 (that +3 comes from his weapon, lets say a rusty shovel). So he rolls another d20, lets say 10, and adds his +3 THB, along with any other bonus, and that would be his total Attack Value. In this case its 13.


ok, this is a nice combat damage idea

The Keebler Elf does the same thing, and adds his To-Block-Bonus (TBB), usually coming from armor or potions. So lets say that Keebler gets like a 16. He would have blocked the attack, therefore ending Bob's turn and giving Keebler an attempt to strike now.


being the D&D man i am, thats not how block works. block is determined generally by the roll of a d20, but the DM makes the decision. dodges are normally judged by the players speed stat, and blocks come from armor not an armor rating.

this is a well thought our combat system, but for real feedback i would need to know more about this game. mostly, this is a fresh idea using hearts.

As the D&D DM that i usually play, you can count on my to tell you what i do in D&D and it might help you:
1: i use no health systems, as i believe the damage is done more by what body part you aim for and how strong your armor is and weapon because you cannot judge how much damage something deals with just rolls.
2:leveling up is difficult to do because you have to make exp systems and exp counts for each level, therefore i agree with the idea of not using one. you are correct on that idea, dont try to make one just because of what other people say^
3:combat, in my way of doing things, works like this:
the player makes the attack action, and rolls d20 for it. the moster rolls d20 as well, for blocking/evasive movement. i dont roll for wounding like you would in warhamer, because that gets to hard to land hits at that point.

i think your system is new and could be tweaked a little but, but its your game so i'm not just gonna yell at you. plus it isnt D&D, which i'm sure someone is gonna say because this entire post is based off of it.

P.S. im sure i misspelled some things. dont be a grammer freak on me.
hardigra
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hardigra
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Thank toy for your posts.

first off: initiative is rolled and determined by d6, not d20

D&D is a really flexible game as far as really, anything. However, I am basing my statement about d20 initiative on the D&D 4e Players Handbook, pg 267, reads 'To detirmine a combat encounter's inititaive order, roll initiative. To do so, make a Dexterity check. Roll 1d0 and add the following: One half your level; your Dexterity modifier; and any other bonuses or penalties that apply. The result is the initiative of your encounter.'
being the D&D man i am, thats not how block works. block is determined generally by the roll of a d20, but the DM makes the decision. dodges are normally judged by the players speed stat, and blocks come from armor not an armor rating.

For blocking, or the To Block Bonus, evasive moves are put into this catagory. therefore, Captian America's Shield could have a value of +5. While a sneaky rogue could have learned a Dodge skill (I will get more into skills later), that skill could add +6 to his TBB. TBB, acts, in D&D's case, as the Armor Class. So dodging fits into this catagory. In this game, Im trying to cut down on the cliche attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom ect.) and put more emphasis on learning skills. If you have ever seen the anime 'Sword Art Online', this is a good example of this.
The idea for not having a health system is a very, if I may say, original and effective. This system that I've made (Havent com up with a name yet, could use help on that, although Im thinking about calling it the d20 variant, or something like that) does need revision and that is why I made this thread. Personally, I love thinking of new ideas and i like hearing them. I think that i need to start my playtest soon to see the flukes in action.
SPIKEABC= you are welcome to playtest this game, just comment on my profile. In addition, you should try running D&D on the AG forums... It might be popular...

I said i would talk about skills, also i need to address why there is an xp count, yet no leveling up.
You have tons of different xp counts. Each time you preform a skill successfully you gain xp in it ( as long as the challenge is close to your level.) . The xp count goes by ones. There should be many different skills, probably way to many to just name off. I will show you an example of a characters skill sheet in Tales of Erabor. It will be of the cheerful Captain Crunch, the Warrior
Skills
Melee Battle (most classes start with this)= 75 {xp}
Scimitar Profiency= 68
Sailboating= 31
Cartography=79
Leather Profiency=49
Gardening=40
The Captains story begins with him learning how to make maps from an old man sitting in an inn in Lightrack (the main starting town in TOE). After hes learned the skill, he starts to make and sell maps, but quickly realized he has never been outside of Lightrack, so its awfully hard to make good maps. So he adventurs out a little, starting the training of his Melee Battle skill and making maps of the land. After a little bit, he realizes he likes the scimitar and finds a master in the scimi. Later he decides to help out his TBB by learning Leather Profiency. At this time, the jolly captain has a good deal of money, because people pay well for maps of the land. So he buys a sailboat with his money and hires a small crew of other players and sails out on the Eastern Sea out of the island of Silverhurst and comes to land. Nobody thought land was east of Silverhurst, so he made a good deal of money. Deciding he wants to settle down a little, he has people make him a log house on the new land, where he takes up gardening for some pocket money.
Tis the story of Captian Crunch.
So as you can see, if I were to add levels in the game, people might have lvl 5 Fortune Telling, Lvl 21 Gambling and 2 in Fishing. So waht would their actual 'level' be? An average, perhaps? An average would make outliers lower the person's averga level by a lot.

Keep the comments coming, I really do like them. Playtesting will begin as soon as all the positions are filled.
spikeabc
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SPIKEABC= you are welcome to playtest this game, just comment on my profile.


i'm coming...

In addition, you should try running D&D on the AG forums... It might be popular...


it wasnt. but i did the directions without a character sheet or anything, so i truthfully didnt even know how to make a thread for it.

I said i would talk about skills, also i need to address why there is an xp count, yet no leveling up.


i think i can help you with that. i'm gonna mosey on over to your wall and see what works

P.S: i'm free all day tomorrow for playtesting and stuff so whatever works for you.
spikeabc
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READ THIS
in addition to what was said earlier...

So as you can see, if I were to add levels in the game, people might have lvl 5 Fortune Telling, Lvl 21 Gambling and 2 in Fishing. So waht would their actual 'level' be? An average, perhaps? An average would make outliers lower the person's averga level by a lot.


you give people experience points for their experience level, which determines how heavy armor can be equipped and how powerful they are. when they level up, thats considered an experience milestone where they gain a level along with stat points, that can be put in to those skills that you mention such as leather proficiency. that level is their overall skill, yes, and determines how strong they are along with how long they have been playing. when i do level systems, the player i'm playing with has one level that they keep between all play sessions so they arent starting over every new game, and someone else that wants to play starts at level 1 next game.

Skills
Melee Battle (most classes start with this)= 75 {xp}
Scimitar Profiency= 68
Sailboating= 31
Cartography=79
Leather Profiency=49
Gardening=40


flawed. these skills dont make any sense in any game. i'm just saying that because if they really are learnable skills i dont think anyone would want to use them.

D&D is a really flexible game as far as really, anything. However, I am basing my statement about d20 initiative on the D&D 4e Players Handbook, pg 267,


you base it off a book, yet you say its a flexible game. so which is it?
i dont have one of those either. that means what i learned in D&D is what my uncles and friends have taught me.

In this game, Im trying to cut down on the cliche attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom ect.) and put more emphasis on learning skills.


strength, dexterity, and wisdom are probably the best examples of skill and power in D&D. i'm glad your trying to move away from cliches, but it will be a very hard thing to do and actually make sense without it.


i really cannot wait to play this game, i am eager to see how it turns out!
hardigra
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hardigra
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flawed. these skills dont make any sense in any game. i'm just saying that because if they really are learnable skills i dont think anyone would want to use them.

It almost seems like we are arguing.
Also, cartography (the skill of making maps) would be useful and learnable. Those were just examples of how skills vary completely and you can learn practically anything.

you base it off a book, yet you say its a flexible game. so which is it?
i dont have one of those either. that means what i learned in D&D is what my uncles and friends have taught me.

Do you know what version your uncle taught you?

We will see how everything turns out. After the playtest (which will be either finished after about 2 weeks of gameplay or when you have completed the set objective {considering this is a beta and it is limited} is when the game will be completed. NEED ONE MORE PERSON
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