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not believing means send to hell?

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:41pm

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

Ninja'd...again! Stop it haha.

Then what meta-meaning were you talking about?


The act of deliberately going against God, there must be a word for it that I don't know. Oh, right. Sin.

So a god that created everything with full knowledge of the way everything would ever be, including the bad, has no fault?


What do you mean with 'has no fault'?
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:42pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us..


All loving God eternally punishes billions of his followers who were made imperfectly.

Ayup. That's love for you.

we're talking eternal punishment here.


Exactly. Eternal. Let's think for a second. You're going to be punished, forever, because you didn't think God was real? Because you made a few mistakes in life?

No one here is opposed to punishment. There is, however, such a thing as fitting the punishment to the crime. No finite set of crimes could EVER warrant eternal torture.

If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?


There's a difference between being offended and flipping out like a psychotic person and torturing your ex-girlfriend to death because she cheated on you.

Exactly! Because he loves us!


"Love me or I punish you forever."

Thing is, he made humans to be perfect.


No, he made two adult-babies and left their eternal ****ation inside of a fruit on a tree he specifically pointed out to them. What do you ****ing expect to happen if you leave two people ENTIRELY UNAWARE OF GOOD AND EVIL alone and let something else tell them that it was okay to eat said fruit that had absolutely no reason to be there?
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:43pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Has that actually occurred to you?

Of course.
Can you give your opinion on the matter?

I let it go. I'm not all-loving, but I wasn't going to make her suffer for it.
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:47pm

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

All loving God eternally punishes billions of his followers who were made imperfectly.

Ayup. That's love for you.


You don't understand it as well...

Exactly. Eternal. Let's think for a second. You're going to be punished, forever, because you didn't think God was real? Because you made a few mistakes in life?


You're not taking into consideration that God is a just judge.

No one here is opposed to punishment. There is, however, such a thing as fitting the punishment to the crime. No finite set of crimes could EVER warrant eternal torture.


Take into consideration that the offense was done to the greater being.

There's a difference between being offended and flipping out like a psychotic person and torturing your ex-girlfriend to death because she cheated on you.


And there is also a difference between a metaphor and real life.

"Love me or I punish you forever."


Truth is, you aren't taking into mind that God has basically loved you since your conception.

No, he made two adult-babies and left their eternal ****ation inside of a fruit on a tree he specifically pointed out to them.


The sin of disobeying. Pretty awful.

What do you ****ing expect to happen if you leave two people ENTIRELY UNAWARE OF GOOD AND EVIL


...but aware of how to and how to not obey orders from a greater being.

alone and let something else tell them that it was okay to eat said fruit that had absolutely no reason to be there?


That someone else was the devil, you know.
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:48pm

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

Stop ninja'ing me Palpatine, hahaha.

I let it go. I'm not all-loving, but I wasn't going to make her suffer for it.


Excellent!
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:54pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Excellent!

So it's excellent that I wasn't pissed and punishing, but it's totally fine for God to be eternally pissed and punishing?
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:56pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

You don't understand it as well...


What don't I understand, then? I'm not in agreement with EmperorPalpatine. All loving does not mean no punishment, per say. If you're raising a child and they steal something, you return what they stole, talk to them about why stealing is bad, and maybe put them in timeout if it's not the first time.

You don't torture them forever and claim you love them while doing so.

You're not taking into consideration that God is a just judge.


God is nothing but a tyrant if he condemns people to eternal punishment for something as simple as not believing in him. Nor is it a just punishment to infinitely overpunish someone.

Take into consideration that the offense was done to the greater being.


Yeah. I think this is the key thing.

God does not have the right to do whatever he wishes because he made us. If I make a child, can I cut open its stomach and eat it because I made it?

He made us as conscious, self thinking beings. Moreover, if he was truly all loving, he wouldn't consider us as lesser.

God is just a psychotic, narcissistic tyrant, if he's how the Bible tells it.

And please, don't try the, "You didn't make it, God did," line.

Truth is, you aren't taking into mind that God has basically loved you since your conception.


Please take a step back and look at this statement. Would someone who loves someone else condemn them to eternal torture for a finite crime?

The sin of disobeying. Pretty awful.


They had no knowledge of sin! You're basically calling an infant stupid for touching fire! After their parent lit one in front of them and left a sadistic older brother there to coax them into it!

...but aware of how to and how to not obey orders from a greater being.


Okay, I get it. We're all God's slaves. That's wonderful.

Seriously? Do you not see how absolutely disgusting that view is? God created a bunch of playthings that are so far beneath him he can do whatever he wants with them, for the sole purpose of having them worship him because they're 'lesser beings?' That's so morally abhorrent I feel sick to my stomach.

That someone else was the devil, you know.


Who God also created. Who God let into the garden.

Not to mention God created the tree in the first place.

I'm going to have to bow out for a while. I'm absolutely disgusted right now.
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:58pm

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

So it's excellent that I wasn't pissed and punishing, but it's totally fine for God to be eternally pissed and punishing?


God isn't pissed. No, not at all. If you can call it a feeling, it would be more like disappointment.
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:59pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,522 posts

Knight

That would be a God that thinks 'I don't care about you, do as you may'.

Nooo, that would be a god that accepts his creations as they are, as they choose to be, and still reserves them heaven. A god that wouldn't care wouldn't send people to heaven. And wouldn't have created us in the first place.

I assume you are a guy? If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?

Well... first, as Palpatine said, not if I was all-loving. No, it hasn't occured to me, but would it matter? I'm not all-loving, I can't say how I'd feel.

Exactly! Because he loves us!

But not those who are nasty. And he can't say who will be so, according to that free will thing, so he knows he will stop to love some people eventually. And yet according to you he is all like "omgosh you were nasty, I am so disappointed although I knew it would happen!" Er, what?

Thing is, he made humans to be perfect. As impossible as it may seem, it must be possible to be perfect back, right? And you reach that perfection in heaven, away from sin. While you are on Earth, you are given the choice. Of course, most choose the 'nice' path of going to hell.

Humans are imperfect because we sin... apparently... so take away sins, and you get perfect non-humans. Beings without free will, bound to eternity to being lobotomized nice little heaps of ectoplasm. All-loving indeed.
 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 6:10pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

I'm not in agreement with EmperorPalpatine. All loving does not mean no punishment, per say.

Some punishment may be warranted, but it must be justified. To create something knowing exactly what it would do/think/say in its life, then claim that the created thing is doing wrong, the fault comes on the creator.

God is a just judge.

The issue comes in saying God is both omnibenevolent/merciful and fully just. Mercy is the impedence/suspension of justice.

it would be more like disappointment

That means it wasn't as good as He expected. If He was all knowing, He would've expected it. Thus, no disappointment.
 
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