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{Intolerant}If Athiests and Homosexuals expect us Christians to be tolerant of them, how come they arent tole...

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Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:27pm

Avorne

Avorne

3,248 posts

Christians throughout history have been intolerant, the laws informed by Christian ideology served to punish anyone who didn't fit in with the traditional definition of good, and it just so happens that homosexuals (and to a lesser extent Atheists) were very much on the receiving end of those laws.

Am I saying that all Christians were like that? That all Christians created the laws that harmed homosexuals and atheists in Western society? No, of course not. Enough of them, though, WERE like that to allow for laws meaning that homosexuals in some countries (England for example) were chemically castrated and/or imprisoned for their sexuality - and that atheists lived in a society where they'd be completely ostracised for not believing in a God.

Laws have changed in more recent times, true, but old suspicions die hard and especially so when homophobic and anti-atheist attitudes still have mainstream prevalence - you need look no further than the British parliament and the recent debates on gay marriage. So many hateful comments, so many people trying to deny homosexuals their rights used the excuse of traditional Christian ideology as a means of legitimizing their hate.

You can't just say 'Not All Christians Are Like That' (NACALT) every time a Christian in a position of power uses their faith as a means to hatred. It's not how many are like that - it's how many tell those people that they're wrong and that they shouldn't be so hateful.

Christians are united by a common God and a common Holy book. Atheists are united by nothing more than a lack of faith in deities and homosexuals by nothing more than an attraction to the same gender. It falls to Christians, therefore, to be the ones that weed out the radicals and the intolerant parties in their group. Once they're seen to be doing that then, perhaps, it will be easier for the whole world to get along without one group of people to get along with another.

One last point, has it ever occurred to you that people don't want to hear about how 'loving' and 'accepting' Christianity is? That they'd like to just continue their lives without you telling them the merits of joining your particular faith group?

 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:29pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,805 posts

Knight

Send them to hell? Not be necessarily. It's more of a hand stretched out to ou. And you choose whether to grab or not.


There are many atheist who see this mindset as a problem. Claiming to be inherently flawed and claiming that you have the cure. To paraphrase Hitchens "It's not a cure, it's poisons".

And also, this is not my reason believe or not, but see I'm comfortable. If I was to die and there is no God, then I would just die. But if an atheist was to die, and there is a God, then.


Or it could turn out to be a different god or gods, it's not just the Christian God or no God. Even if it was the Christian God you might have gotten the wrong denomination and still be in trouble with that God. It may even be something no one has thought of.

As such the situation then becomes Do we spin the wheel and hope we get it right or do we hold out for some solid evidence?

Being a Christian is not asking for much, but to simply believe.


It can do far more, it can tell you what to think, how to think, how to act and depending on the denomination it's not always good.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:30pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,520 posts

Knight

Nor do you have an answer on how we came to be here.

Abiogenesis.

And you may refer to apes, while, where did the apes come from?

We did not descend from apes. We are apes. We descended from a common ancestor, that evolved from other lifeforms; in short, evolution. To answer how it all started, see abiogenesis.

The difference between me and you guys, is that I have faith. And I simply win either way. There is a God and I will have everlasting life in the name of Jesus Christ. But if there were to not be a God, I simply die like everyone else. Believing in God isn't asking for much at all.

This is Pascal's wager. Pascal's wager is wrong on oh so many fronts, see this. For example, what if neither christians nor atheists were right? Then you'd be ****ed for believing in the wrong deity. Independent on what you believe, the probability of being right will always be close to zero.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:33pm

Avorne

Avorne

3,248 posts

but you don't have hard solid facts that Jesus did not exist

You don't have solid facts that he did exist.

Nor do you have an answer on how we came to be here.

Totally not like the Big Bang Theory, Abiogenesis and Evolution are things or anything.

Your referral to Evolution as humans coming 'from Apes' shows your ignorance on the topic, though, so I don't hold much faith that abiogenesis will get through your blinkered vision and into that cotton-wrapped brain of yours.

I'd also recommend that you look up Pascal's Wager.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:38pm

wolf1991

wolf1991

3,537 posts

I would say this is an even Steven, but you don't have hard solid facts that Jesus did not exist, same with God.


*puts on historian hat*

The name Jesus around the turn of the era (BCE to CE) was a fairly common name, so many historians will take that at face value. Furthermore, if we take Islam as an example, it is an accepted historical fact that SOMEONE had to have inspired the creation of the Islamic faith.

There is documentation to support this, though it's obscure and I'm not an expert on this historical time period. Regardless the example shows that a person must have inspired the creation of the Christian faith.

THE PROBLEM: There is no concrete evidence to tell who this historical figure was. The bible cannot be considered a reliable historical document because of the numerous revisions and translations it has gone through.

As for proving god. Let's not start this because you cannot prove this matter either way.

Nor do you have an answer on how we came to be here. And you may refer to apes, while, where did the apes come from?


I shall have to call upon Mage to invoke the Wall o' Links should he still possess it. Evolution is a very complicated matter.

The difference between me and you guys, is that I have faith. And I simply win either way.


No, there is no winning or losing. You do not "win" because you have faith, because in terms of facts, faith is groundless.

Believing in God isn't asking for much at all.


Except for the dismissal of a great number of scientific theories (aka things that have lots of proof behind them)
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:39pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,805 posts

Knight

I would say this is an even Steven, but you don't have hard solid facts that Jesus did not exist, same with God.


You don't go about proving a negative. You looking for facts and evidence to support the positive claim and default to the negative claim.
For example if I were to say there is an invisible flying elephant over you head right now and is going to poop on your head if you don't move out of the way. Would you believe me with out any evidence to support it and run around trying to escape the invisible elephant poo or are you going to hold off until I can show you this elephant is real? And further more is it up to you to to prove it isn't or is it up to me to demonstrate it does exist?


And you may refer to apes, while, where did the apes come from?


We're still apes. As for the species we evolved from they in turn evolved from and earlier form going all the way back to the point where chemical reaction took place forming self replicating molecules.

The difference between me and you guys, is that I have faith.


To me that's not a good thing. That's just saying your accepting something at face value without anything to support that claim.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 4:47pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,805 posts

Knight

Your referral to Evolution as humans coming 'from Apes' shows your ignorance on the topic,


Are statements like these what you mean by "make them look like idiots for our faith"? Because that's not at all what's going on.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 5:00pm

pballaddict

pballaddict

129 posts

http://youtu.be/TDMVd0cAYKE

Keep in mind I do not believe in EVERYTHING he is saying, by it makes good points. Please watch.

 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 5:02pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

Because that's not at all what's going on.


It is and it isn't. People arguing about evolution and constantly pointing out ridiculous misunderstandings do make people look stupid. That's not their intent though.

It's like, someone walking around claiming 2+2=9. Someone goes up to them and tells them that's not right, the answer is 4. The other person responds saying they believe it's 9. So the person tries to explain how addition works, and the person who believe's the answer to be 9 says that they were told in a book that it was 9 and that the book was right. So the person tries to disprove the book on it's claim of 9, but the person who thinks it is 9 brings out a whole swarm of other incorrect additions answers, citing those are right. They then say that because those are right, 2+2=9. Then the person who is trying to say it's 4 either gets annoyed, mad, calls the person stupid or walks away with a facepalm.

^Is what theists look like when talking about evolution.
 

Posted Feb 10, '13 at 5:05pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Please watch.


Oh, I kicked the crap out of that guy's arguments months ago. Hang on while I find my counterpoints.