Forums

ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.

Thoughts on Mormonism

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 7:19am

partydevil

partydevil

5,087 posts

I believe I said he had a bunch of stuff to do.

he is god. he can do everything in a blink of a eye.
why would he be busy whit something?
unless you mean his normal job of systematically killing african babies.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 7:39am

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

1,343 posts

Mormons have a different view of the whole "wrong religion HELL AND ****ATION" thing. We think that, if we pretend all religion is true, that other religions have truth, just not all of it. Like a really, really big pie, and every religion takes a small slice, but that it was fully restored and the mormon (LDS) faith has it all. And we're not like "HURHURHUR WE BETTER JESUS HALLELUJAH SPIRITS AMEN". We want to give everybody a chance to hear it, not keep it to ourselves and be *****.

I noticed something a long time ago whenever I talked with my bishop: he always taught me the same lesson. I was always curious why, and I originally thought that it was because it was a very valuable lesson to learn, but now I realize that it was because the guy was a one trick pony. He was only able to start a lecture using the same story about his rough childhood. I, however have way more ways than the religious to prove a point besides saying "god doesn't exist!" I know this because I have managed to beat these arguments back each time.

The Mormon faith does believe what you have put down, but god could still easily do the job on his own and not make your boys lose 2 years of their lives just for indoctrination of not only themselves, but the people around them as well. God could easily beam knowledge into people's heads like he did with the prophets, but the best he can do is ancient book? I'm not impressed.

-Blade

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 12:28pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,564 posts

We want to give everybody a chance to hear it, not keep it to ourselves and be *****.

So why can't God shout out the truth then?

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 3:11pm

Wyrzen

Wyrzen

325 posts

he is god. he can do everything in a blink of a eye.
why would he be busy whit something?
unless you mean his normal job of systematically killing african babies.

I thought you don't believe in God? How can a mysterious figure you don't believe in accomplish anything if he's a figment of human imagination?

And that's oddly specific.

So why can't God shout out the truth then?

A very valid point. Now, Mormons (I can't speak for other christian sects) believe that He's actually trying to shout it out, though obviously not in a super easy cloud writing way, because that would abolish the concept of faith and such. I believe he is trying incredibly hard because he loves all of you, and my faith is trying as hard as we can to spread it as far as we can, so everybody at least hears it.

The Mormon faith does believe what you have put down, but god could still easily do the job on his own and not make your boys lose 2 years of their lives just for indoctrination of not only themselves, but the people around them as well. God could easily beam knowledge into people's heads like he did with the prophets, but the best he can do is ancient book? I'm not impressed.

You used to be mormon, you know that would violate the concept of free agency because we wouldn't have a choice in the matter, it would be forced upon us. I'm also interested, however, in how you fell away.

Just a curious side note.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 3:55pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,970 posts

I thought you don't believe in God? How can a mysterious figure you don't believe in accomplish anything if he's a figment of human imagination?

It's the same as if this were an "Iron Man vs Batman" thread. In those, no one is claiming they exist, but you can discuss their conceptual attributes/abilities/accomplishments.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 3:56pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,564 posts

I thought you don't believe in God? How can a mysterious figure you don't believe in accomplish anything if he's a figment of human imagination?

And that's oddly specific.

See, it's the REVERSE of this that we're reasoning.

If God existed, why CAN'T he do this? IF he existed and had the traits that believers claimed, he WOULD do something like that to prevent people from suffering. Since he hasn't, it's logical to reason that he DOESN'T exist.

because that would abolish the concept of faith and such.

Why is faith good? Blindly believing in something with little to no reason isn't good, it's foolish. If someone was selling you a house for $10 would you believe them? You should have faith in humanity and believe that he's not trying to scam you $10, right? No! You ask to see the house and the documentation for ownership.

Religion is the person asking for $10. It wants everyone to believe them and buy into what they're claiming. It refuses to show proof for itself and gets indignant when people stop believing. It acts offended when people accuse it of causing problems and being wrong, and wonders why? It's ridiculous!

I believe he is trying incredibly hard because he loves all of you,

Then God is INCREDIBLY impotent. If you seriously believe that an all powerful god who supposedly created everything in the universe can't TALK to his subjects to simply let us know he's there, please think that over and see how insane that is.

you know that would violate the concept of free agency because we wouldn't have a choice in the matter, it would be forced upon us.

Free will ALREADY doesn't exist if there's an afterlife and we get judged.

Do you have free will if someone is pointing a gun at your head and says, "You can listen to me and live, or disobey me and die?" No! That's what God is doing on a mass, eternal scale by the system the Bible says exists.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:28pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

1,343 posts

You used to be mormon, you know that would violate the concept of free agency because we wouldn't have a choice in the matter, it would be forced upon us.

the problem with that logic is that, they can beam the knowledge into their head, and then they can then be judged according to their works, not for believing or not. it would level the playing field, and give everyone an equal opportunity, which would allow god to truly separate the "wheat" from the "tares" if you will.

I remember the mormon faith judges based on both, but this system is much fairer for everyone.

-Blade

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 5:54pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,666 posts

Knight

I agree with the bottom statement, many, many religious people are dumb and stupid, because their faith is based on ignorance. And I think religion does have evidence, it's just evidence that is attributed to other events, or is exceptionally hard to prove.

If religion had evidence it wouldn't need faith. Faith is by it's very nature ignorance. Faith by definition is belief without proof/evidence. That means you're believing something without knowing if what you're believing in is true or not. Since you lack knowledge due to lacking proof, you therefore are by definition ignorant if you are going on faith.

Mormons have a different view of the whole "wrong religion HELL AND ****ATION" thing. We think that, if we pretend all religion is true, that other religions have truth, just not all of it. Like a really, really big pie, and every religion takes a small slice, but that it was fully restored and the mormon (LDS) faith has it all. And we're not like "HURHURHUR WE BETTER JESUS HALLELUJAH SPIRITS AMEN". We want to give everybody a chance to hear it, not keep it to ourselves and be *****.

Saying each religion has a piece of the truth doesn't work given the wildly contradicting nature of religions. Also since non of it is evidence based there is no metric to determine what the truths are. Not to mention every religion claims to be the one with all the truth.

Saying you have the truth based on faith is ridiculous for the above reason of what faith is.

I thought you don't believe in God? How can a mysterious figure you don't believe in accomplish anything if he's a figment of human imagination?

From all observation we don't actually see God accomplishing anything.

A very valid point. Now, Mormons (I can't speak for other christian sects) believe that He's actually trying to shout it out, though obviously not in a super easy cloud writing way, because that would abolish the concept of faith and such.

So abolish the concept of faith, it's a horrible concept anyway as a means of belief.

I believe he is trying incredibly hard because he loves all of you,

Again if we are dealing with an omnipotent being nothing could be regarded as hard for him.

You used to be mormon, you know that would violate the concept of free agency because we wouldn't have a choice in the matter, it would be forced upon us.

Having knowledge doesn't destroy free will. It simply means I can better evaluate a situation and come to a decision based on what is factual.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 10:19pm

Wyrzen

Wyrzen

325 posts

It's the same as if this were an "Iron Man vs Batman" thread. In those, no one is claiming they exist, but you can discuss their conceptual attributes/abilities/accomplishments.

True, true, I'll give you that.

If God existed, why CAN'T he do this? IF he existed and had the traits that believers claimed, he WOULD do something like that to prevent people from suffering. Since he hasn't, it's logical to reason that he DOESN'T exist.

It's like I've said to blade, without evil and chaos, we would not know order and good. It's not like he enjoys all this happening, but it needs to. We need to be able to exercise our free agency. Maybe he needs those people killed to come back to him sooner. Maybe it's a test of our faith (or lack of) and reactions to these problems.

the problem with that logic is that, they can beam the knowledge into their head, and then they can then be judged according to their works, not for believing or not. it would level the playing field, and give everyone an equal opportunity, which would allow god to truly separate the "wheat" from the "tares" if you will.

I remember the mormon faith judges based on both, but this system is much fairer for everyone.

But in the exact same standpoint, we are not fit, nor worthy to judge our fellow man. It is not our place to do so.

If religion had evidence it wouldn't need faith. Faith is by it's very nature ignorance. Faith by definition is belief without proof/evidence. That means you're believing something without knowing if what you're believing in is true or not. Since you lack knowledge due to lacking proof, you therefore are by definition ignorant if you are going on faith.

But with evidence, faith does not exist. We would all be christian, we would all be good, and nothing would happen. We would not learn from our mistakes nor accomplish anything.

Again if we are dealing with an omnipotent being nothing could be regarded as hard for him.

It is if he acts through people, because people have the power of choice and are quite fickle.

 

Posted Feb 19, '13 at 10:36pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,666 posts

Knight

But with evidence, faith does not exist.

Exactly, it seems you're advocating that being ignorant is some how a positive thing here. Faith is not a good thing to have to go on. It's the last thing to look toward if at all. Any system that requires faith is likely just out to con you.

We would all be christian, we would all be good, and nothing would happen. We would not learn from our mistakes nor accomplish anything.

No that wouldn't be what would happen. Just because someone is Christian doesn't mean they are good. We would still be able to make mistakes and accomplish all sorts of things. We would simply have a better understanding of reality that we could base our actions on.

 
Reply to Thoughts on Mormonism

You must be logged in to post a reply!