ForumsWEPRSteubenville

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Strop
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Strop
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One of the key words in this post will be censored. I've never known why and I contend that it ought not to be because it is sending a fundamentally wrong message.

I've been following this case for some months now, but given the recent media coverage, I'm not sure whether I should be surprised or not surprised that the topic has yet to be raised here.

Well, I think it's important, so I'm raising it now.

Relevant facts of the case:

A girl went to a party somewhere in Steubenville, a party at which several members of the local football team were present.

The girl subsequently became intoxicated to the point that she was for all intents and purposes unconscious.

Over the next several hours, several members of aforementioned football team performed and recorded unsolicited sexual acts on the girl. They then continued recording while they drove the unconscious girl to several other parties where the same happened. During this, it is verbally acknowledged on recording that the girl is unconscious, that the sexual acts being performed are without any form of consent, and that they willfully disregard this while continuing to perform the acts.

This footage is still publicly available as it was published on several social networking sites. I will refrain from linking to it here.

The girl is eventually dumped outside her own house. She is not aware of the events of the night until it is brought to her attention as a result of the distribution of recorded footage on networking sites.

Subsequent attempts to clarify what happened and to seek legal advice are met with resistance and threats in order to suppress the family of the girl. This appears to be because Steubenville's football players were involved.

It takes a sustained and somewhat-illegal campaign led by Anonymous to bring to public attention the specific details of the case, including the details of people they believe were positively identified in the footage, that the acts recorded constitute ****, and that prosecution ought to follow.

Eventually, two of the perpetrators are tried and convicted of ****.

Subsequently, just about every major broadcasting network in the US laments the destruction of two promising football careers and the tragedy of young men being convicted of ****.

---

It's at this point that much of the world took notice and went "Wait, what?" While it is true that the girl did attend the party, and did become intoxicated, this incident is being portrayed such that the girl is the one at fault. And that the ones who ***** her (repeatedly and willfully, on video) are the victims. And every one of these media reports appear to conveniently forget what sexual assault actually is, and what standards we, as purportedly civilised people, are supposed to be holding ourselves to.

What I want to know is, can any of you tell me what the hell is going on in America? What's the real deal? What does the public actually think of this case, or are they only aware of the media party line and therefore agree that the boys are the victims? And what the **** is wrong with a country with institutions that rally behind patriotic hubris to the extent that it disregards the rights which it supposedly granted equally to its citizens? What kind of shameful pride is that?

Tell me it isn't so. This isn't a problem unique to the US, of course, seeing as Australia has had a similar problem with its own footy **** culture several years ago, and worse happens on a regular basis in India, not to mention other places... but thanks to the happenings in a small town in the US, and the subsequent distortion of justice and the media machine which is plain as day to anybody who doesn't live there, the spotlight, America, is now on you.

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roydotor2000
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roydotor2000
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Why rape exists anyway?

wolf1991
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In recent news there's going to be an appeal on the grounds that... The defendant's brain was not fully developed and therefore incapable of making a proper decision.

Seriously, this case is growing more insulting and ridiculous by the day. Can we not just hang these people?

Masterforger
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In recent news there's going to be an appeal on the grounds that... The defendant's brain was not fully developed and therefore incapable of making a proper decision.

Football player legal matters.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbiqec1JUw1ri1mxoo1_400.gif[
Wow. That is the pure definition of stupidity.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Why rape exists anyway?


Ok..seriously?

In recent news there's going to be an appeal on the grounds that... The defendant's brain was not fully developed and therefore incapable of making a proper decision


Oh good..brb guys..gonna go do me some rape. Apparently some BS reasons are ready to defend me
Xzeno
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Xzeno
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Ok..seriously?
Huh? This is the only worthwhile question that's been asked here. At least it's the most fundamental.

The reason we see so many rape apologetics in the media is because people don't understand that question. Rape doesn't happen because girls dress ****ty. Rape doesn't happen because men can't control sexual urges. It's not about arousal or titillation. Rape is an evil thing that happens for evil reasons. It's not that people think that rape is okay, just the opposite, but blaming the victim is easier than facing the horrible, gut-churning truth.

Rape apologetics aren't saying women deserve to be raped. They just want to believe that there is some reason for it that creates a just world. They can't accept that karmic forces don't control something as heinous as this.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see two people's lives ruined by rape convictions. No one deserves to suffer. I don't want to see them shot or hanged or anything horrible like that.

As for America, well, welcome to the West. Culture is the most important factor in this, and nations do differ culturally, but we all float or sink together on this.
thepunisher93
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Huh? This is the only worthwhile question that's been asked here. At least it's the most fundamental.

The reason we see so many rape apologetics in the media is because people don't understand that question. Rape doesn't happen because girls dress ****ty. Rape doesn't happen because men can't control sexual urges. It's not about arousal or titillation. Rape is an evil thing that happens for evil reasons. It's not that people think that rape is okay, just the opposite, but blaming the victim is easier than facing the horrible, gut-churning truth.

Rape apologetics aren't saying women deserve to be raped. They just want to believe that there is some reason for it that creates a just world. They can't accept that karmic forces don't control something as heinous as this.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see two people's lives ruined by rape convictions. No one deserves to suffer. I don't want to see them shot or hanged or anything horrible like that.

As for America, well, welcome to the West. Culture is the most important factor in this, and nations do differ culturally, but we all float or sink together on this.

I don't sy its victim's fault but if she dresses inappropiatley that is an open invitation to sick ppl(at least in their heads)
So women should dress properly.
The argument that why women should be afraid or hide as they are equal is just some feminist BS.
Take this as your car, if some one steals it blames on them but yo lock you car nevertheless.
wolf1991
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Anyway, I'm sorry to see two people's lives ruined by rape convictions. No one deserves to suffer. I don't want to see them shot or hanged or anything horrible like that


See this is my fundamental problem with this case. No one should feel sorry for these rapists. Why do you feel sorry for people who did something evil, something they knew full well to be wrong. Actually the better question to ask is HOW can you feel sorry for these people? Shouldn't the support go toward the victim, not those who committed the crime.

I don't sy its victim's fault but if she dresses inappropiatley that is an open invitation to sick ppl(at least in their heads)
So women should dress properly


And this is why I hate people like you. Because, you, however good you intentions, have now just objectified women. No matter how a woman dresses, no matter what she wears, that is NEVER an open invitation for anything. The only time it's an invitation is when the woman consents.
partydevil
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partydevil
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if she dresses inappropiatley that is an open invitation to sick ppl

then we need to fight these sick people and not tell the lady's to dress different. it's their freedom to dress as they like. (well not at your place, but in most places it is)
those sick people are the problem. not the dress.
if the dress was the problem then why doesn't it have the same effect on me or 99% of the other males?
xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
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yeah, it is the fault victims fault. just stay at your home or drink only your own made drinks when you are on a party. the same counts for food, bring your own to a party.

seriously? how could it be the victims fault? i mean, who put the drugs into the drink?

hey, since the victim is guilty when it comes to ****, then we could add this to murder! you killed someone? it was the victims fault. you robbed a bank? it was the fault of the bank. we could combine this with mass murder too...

it does not matter how low the bar of stupidity is, someone can allways walk straight under it.

Xzeno
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Xzeno
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See this is my fundamental problem with this case. No one should feel sorry for these rapists. Why do you feel sorry for people who did something evil, something they knew full well to be wrong. Actually the better question to ask is HOW can you feel sorry for these people? Shouldn't the support go toward the victim, not those who committed the crime.
Why: because bad things are happening to them and that's a piteous situation. How? Basic empathy? What do you mean how do I feel sorry for people? What kind of question is that? I am capable of empathizing with other people. That's how I feel sorry for them.

As for the punisher's comments, I think I'll some other address that for a bit before I address the obvious logical and moral failings of both his comments and the inevitably clumsy counterattacks.
EmperorPalpatine
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i mean, who put the drugs into the drink?

It's not yet known, and may never be known, if it was just the alcohol or if something was added.
thepunisher93
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And this is why I hate people like you. Because, you, however good you intentions, have now just objectified women. No matter how a woman dresses, no matter what she wears, that is NEVER an open invitation for anything. The only time it's an invitation is when the woman consents.

Not in the rapists head.
then we need to fight these sick people and not tell the lady's to dress different. it's their freedom to dress as they like. (well not at your place, but in most places it is)
those sick people are the problem. not the dress.
if the dress was the problem then why doesn't it have the same effect on me or 99% of the other males?

Do you know how many sick people there are? How many you have to catch?
Until you have exact answer of above two questions, the only to find the rapists is when he commits it, by then the victim is literally screwed.Prevention is better than cure.
yeah, it is the fault victims fault. just stay at your home or drink only your own made drinks when you are on a party. the same counts for food, bring your own to a party.

seriously? how could it be the victims fault? i mean, who put the drugs into the drink?

hey, since the victim is guilty when it comes to ****, then we could add this to murder! you killed someone? it was the victims fault. you robbed a bank? it was the fault of the bank. we could combine this with mass murder too...

it does not matter how low the bar of stupidity is, someone can allways walk straight under it.

If I know that a certain part of town has a sizeable proportion of Neo Nazis, who will beat me to death on sight, I will avoid it, same as I will avoid passing through a dark alley at night or walk feeble infront of a group of hoodlums, these are al pecautions to prevent some thing bad from happening to me, just like wearing modest clothes and carrying mace etc can be precautions against rape.
Use of common sense and some caution can save one from many perils.
And no its not victim's fault she got ravaged although she should have taken precautions.
thepunisher93
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thepunisher93
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And this is why I hate people like you. Because, you, however good you intentions, have now just objectified women. No matter how a woman dresses, no matter what she wears, that is NEVER an open invitation for anything. The only time it's an invitation is when the woman consents.

Not in the rapists head.

then we need to fight these sick people and not tell the lady's to dress different. it's their freedom to dress as they like. (well not at your place, but in most places it is)
those sick people are the problem. not the dress.
if the dress was the problem then why doesn't it have the same effect on me or 99% of the other males?

Do you know how many sick people there are? How many you have to catch?
Until you have exact answer of above two questions, the only to find the rapists is when he commits it, by then the victim is literally screwed.Prevention is better than cure.

yeah, it is the fault victims fault. just stay at your home or drink only your own made drinks when you are on a party. the same counts for food, bring your own to a party.

seriously? how could it be the victims fault? i mean, who put the drugs into the drink?

hey, since the victim is guilty when it comes to ****, then we could add this to murder! you killed someone? it was the victims fault. you robbed a bank? it was the fault of the bank. we could combine this with mass murder too...

it does not matter how low the bar of stupidity is, someone can allways walk straight under it.

If I know that a certain part of town has a sizeable proportion of Neo Nazis, who will beat me to death on sight, I will avoid it, same as I will avoid passing through a dark alley at night or walk feeble infront of a group of hoodlums, these are al pecautions to prevent some thing bad from happening to me, just like wearing modest clothes and carrying mace etc can be precautions against rape.
Use of common sense and some caution can save one from many perils.
And no its not victim's fault she got ravaged although she should have taken precautions.

Also I am talkin in general, not about this specific case
danielo
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A man can dress as he like. Back in the 18 century, the view of a women ancle was "enough" to be not inappropiatley. So what next? Iranian dress?

Masterforger
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Masterforger
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If I know that a certain part of town has a sizeable proportion of Neo Nazis, who will beat me to death on sight, I will avoid it, same as I will avoid passing through a dark alley at night or walk feeble infront of a group of hoodlums, these are al pecautions to prevent some thing bad from happening to me, just like wearing modest clothes and carrying mace etc can be precautions against rape.
Use of common sense and some caution can save one from many perils.
And no its not victim's fault she got ravaged although she should have taken precautions.

A: You're expecting common sense from people? Look at the world. Common sense isn't in the greater mix.
B: You can get raped anyway, and your logic means that even if the victim is raped despite your oh-so-powerful 'revention' the victim is the one at fault? Not quite. Not quite.
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