ForumsThe TavernReinventing the Word: A Pointless Pseudo-Philosophical Pondering

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Gantic
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Gantic
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It would be neat, in multiple senses of the word, if all words were collapsible to discrete packages that conveyed all parts of denotation. At its core, this is a really pointless task, but let's indulge the thought. Words come in many forms, nouns and verbs being the big two. If we strip away everything but noun verb interaction, we lose the nuances; however, this simplifies things and gives us a place to start, so we'll start there. (Note that I already forgo connotation.) We can even further forgo verbs and simplify this Within nouns alone, there are different types of nouns. Some describe objects, some describe ideas, some describe relationships, which is somewhere between object and idea. To further clarify: A rock is an object. A game is an idea. A grain is a relationship. Objects are discrete tangible things. Ideas are on some intangible continuum. Relationships are just arbitrary.

(Note that I'm not actually proving anything. And for those who have already figured out that using words to break down words to reinventing words to neat and discrete meanings is actually begging the question or whatever ridiculous wait-how-can-you-if-you-my-brain-is-hurting whatchamathinghickey, we'll ignore that too. That's why this is a pointless pseudo-philosophical pondering, which itself is an oxymoron. We're also ignoring every form of English that isn't American.)

Let's start with boxes. What makes a box a box? If I say, box, are you picturing a rigid rectangular prism container that opens up? Bam! There's the definition of a box. Rigid. Rectangular Prism. Container. Opens up. If you were to choose one of these words (or phrases) to describe a box, then which one would it be? Container. Function is the most important part here. Let's go back a step and see if the definition is unique. Are all rigid, rectangular prism containers that open up boxes? For all intents and purposes, yes. "Wait a minute!" you say, "Are you telling me a cabinet is a box?" Isn't it? "Wait, what about buses?" you say. Are buses containers? "A bus is a vehicle. A vehicle is a conveyance. A conveyance is a container. So yes." Well, uh, boxes don't have wheels? "So a box is a rigid, rectangular prism container that opens up but is not a bus." Uh, er, um, well darn. We didn't get anywhere after all.

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xeano321
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xeano321
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"Wait a minute!" you say, "Are you telling me a cabinet is a box?" Isn't it? "Wait, what about buses?" you say. Are buses containers? "A bus is a vehicle. A vehicle is a conveyance. A conveyance is a container. So yes." Well, uh, boxes don't have wheels? "So a box is a rigid, rectangular prism container that opens up but is not a bus." Uh, er, um, well darn. We didn't get anywhere after all.


That gave me a headache...

So are we here to pick what words define a word?
StormWalker
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*blink blink* I can definitely say that this confuses me. As far as I can glean, it's what xeano said.

So are we here to pick what words define a word?

I suppose so. Except this is only from your point of view maybe, because you say box, I think of 'cardboard cube that invites imagination.' [You know, hiding under it, pretending it's a time machine, pretending to be a turtle, etc] And that could define a bunch of other things.
Gantic
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Certainly, if you can get down to a unique meaning.

In the last paragraph, I was being facetious. A box has a lid, flaps, covers, etc., which makes it totally different from a bus. Also boxes are not necessarily rectangular prisms. A Toblerone box is a triangular prism. A hat box is roughly a cylinder. Even if a hatbox were made of metal, it most certainly wouldn't be mistaken for a can as a can is a rigid sealed cylindrical container.

StormWalker
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I suppose it all depends on one's point of view.

ironblade41
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ironblade41
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Slow down! I have the mind of a 14-year-old boy... Because I am one.

Kasic
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Kasic
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Toxz.

There's your word. I gave those four letters the entire conceptual meaning of what it is to be a box.

Language doesn't work like how you want it to for this Gantic. We use more words to specify. A box already describes a box, but there's many types of boxes. Because of this, we have to add other words to help narrow what it is being spoken of.

Thus, Toxz.

aknerd
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Boxes are brown and made of cardboard. If you are lucky they might be full of baked goods sent from a loving parent. But usually its just contacts or something.

A box hides even as it reveals.

soccerdude2
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I lost it when Gantic started talking about Toblerone.

Reton8
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Wait, so this is about abstraction?

Gantic
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Gantic
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Wait, so this is about abstraction?


Certainly.
Bronze
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Bronze
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Alliteration!

This thread reminds me of a blog by Patrick Rothfuss. Basically, there isn't a word for when you think something is interesting, and nobody else does. Like when you find a fancy rock and try to point it out to your disinterested friends. What's my point? Good question.

StormWalker
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Like when you find a fancy rock and try to point it out to your disinterested friends. What's my point? Good question.

I can't say how many times something small and rather unintresting in retrospect has entertained me for long spans of time while everyone else around me goes "Storm, what are you doing to that leaf?" "It's not a leaf, it's part of the zombie leaf brigade!"
Again, this [this referring to the posts I've made here] all seems somewhat to do with my imagination, so maybe I'm counted out.
Also half the time I want to bang my head into the wall while re-reading the first post.
Gantic
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Gantic
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There isn't any alliteration in the title. It is a repetition of P's, but it's a popping sissing-fuffinguffing popping.

Do you have a link to the blog?

Mildly relevant link in explaining things: "Can you explain a hard idea using only the ten hundred most used words?" (and the related xkcd).

Box is one of the 1000 most used words, but can you explain what a box is using those 1000 words without using the word box?

Bronze
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Oops, I just saw the P's.

Here's the blog. [url]http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2012/06/me-me-me-memes/[/url].

Reton8
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This is starting to remind me of trying to describe colors to people who have been born blind.

Mildly relevant link in explaining things: "Can you explain a hard idea using only the ten hundred most used words?"


Thanks to some ambiguity in the description:
"A hard idea is an idea that is not easily understood. "
(But that really wasn't what they were getting at.)
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