Forums

ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.

Why does everyone seem to be against my views on life?

Thread Locked

Posted May 25, '13 at 7:57pm

SonOfVader

SonOfVader

113 posts

Absolutely everyone I know shares all of my beliefs, and I know a lot of people. Why are you guys so different?


I think it was actually very good of you to start this thread. It shows that you've seen that your views seem to have caused strong reactions from the AG community; and that you're making an attempt to understand our views; which are apparently radically opposed to your own. Many people in your position would just lash out at the community or just abandon it altogether. Maybe you're more tolerant that you at first appeared
 

Posted May 25, '13 at 8:48pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,782 posts

Knight

I think it was actually very good of you to start this thread. It shows that you've seen that your views seem to have caused strong reactions from the AG community; and that you're making an attempt to understand our views; which are apparently radically opposed to your own. Many people in your position would just lash out at the community or just abandon it altogether. Maybe you're more tolerant that you at first appeared


He has demonstrated that he can change his views on a claim and has admitted to being wrong about things. This demonstrates a potential. Of course the more deeply rooted bs will be harder to let go of (if ever). This one reason why I'm not completely discounting his ability to expand. So long as he is open to taking in new information he stands a chance. Given the way he has acted and his statement here and elsewhere I have suspected that these views are largely from not being exposed to that information. I also find it quite a shame to see someone with such a warped view of reality, citing conspiracy theories and religion as truth.

It may be necessary to not only explain that his views are in error but how they are and provide as detailed evidence as we can demonstrating the reality of the subject. We will also have to keep in mind that he has likely not developed proper critical thinking skills to be able to discern good and bad information.

http://www.urban-yogi.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TheTruthWillSetYouFreeButFirst.jpg
 

Posted May 25, '13 at 8:55pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,782 posts

Knight

Just a thought here, that is if KnightDeclan would like. We could use this thread to field each of his views one at a time in a more educational, less combative role.

Knight if you are watching you can start by posting a single view and work from there.

My suggestion would be the moon landing hoax idea of yours. That would be good one we could quite easily field with evidence to the contrary for you.

 

Posted May 25, '13 at 9:03pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

Good idea, Mage. You've got the reins on this one.

 

Posted May 25, '13 at 10:21pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,782 posts

Knight

Well let Knight pick which topic he wants to focus on.

I would suggest that we perhaps stay away from the religious views for now.

We could start with maybe one of these,
- Scientists just make stuff up.
- Moon Landing was a hoax.
- No human has ever been in space.
- Illuminati controls everything. (this one might be a bit harder to field given current views)
- Waters under the Earth. (skirting the border of a religious view, but could be handled without going there)
- Moon doesn't influence tides (related to above)

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, or we could just start with how to go about discerning the difference between good and bad information.

I suppose while we wait we could start chipping away at some of these suggested above. "Scientists make stuff up" and telling apart good and bad information might be the best place to start since that could play into why the other beliefs are being held.

And who knows, maybe it will be of help for some of the others with similar beliefs who are floating around out there.

 

Posted May 26, '13 at 12:58am

Blkasp

Blkasp

1,357 posts

Scientists just make stuff up.


I always believed that Scientists work through trialling with experiments, examining evidence to give a rock solid theory.

As I have grown up I have seen how as Science has moved away from explaining how the Universe works (e.g. Gravity) to how it began, theories have become shakier and shakier and "educated guesses" have become more and more prolific. For example, scientists do not know for certain what caused the Big Bang, despite many guesses and possible explanations, yet it is promoted as the most widely accepted theory. Can Physics explain what happend before the supposed "Big Bang" when physics only truly came into existance after the Big Bang? I don't think so.

Will we ever know for certain? I do not believe so. We can wait untill we die, and find out then for sure.

Do Scientists make stuff up? I should hope not, but it is inevitable that they must make hypothesis' to explain things for the time being untill they know things for certain, and it is only natural if their preconceived ideas creep in.


(BTW I am back from the grave... am I anonymous again yet?)
 

Posted May 26, '13 at 5:39am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,782 posts

Knight

As I have grown up I have seen how as Science has moved away from explaining how the Universe works (e.g. Gravity) to how it began, theories have become shakier and shakier and "educated guesses" have become more and more prolific. For example, scientists do not know for certain what caused the Big Bang, despite many guesses and possible explanations, yet it is promoted as the most widely accepted theory.


Even in your example scientists are doing the same thing they have always been doing. Creating workable models of reality based on the observable evidence. The reason why the Big Bang is the most widely accepted is because it fits best with all the available evidence. If a new model comes along that can demonstrate that it fits the available data better, you would see scientists abandon the Big bang model for the new one. It doesn't matter if they are asking how the Earth began or how the universe began.
"Educated guesses" are only a first step in the whole process. If we have more of them that's actually a good thing. It means we have found more things we don't know and still need to explore. Which is exactly what science is for.

As for certain I'm not sure what you mean. In science certainty works in degrees, not absolutes. So are the majority of scientists certain that the Big Bang model is currently the most accurate? For the majority, yes they are.

Will we ever know for certain? I do not believe so. We can wait untill we die, and find out then for sure.


What we do is create the most accurate model we can based on the available evidence and continue to revise that model as new evidence is made available. You have to keep in mind that all scientific knowledge is tentative an provisional to allow new information to be added.

I should hope not, but it is inevitable that they must make hypothesis' to explain things for the time being untill they know things for certain, and it is only natural if their preconceived ideas creep in.


While a hypothesis can be just an educated guess, it would be more accurate to call it a prediction. A prediction based on what we have observed but has yet been verified. The nice thing about science is the process is self correcting. This help to eliminate those preconceived ideas that creep in. For instance the requirement that new information be verified by an independent third party, the use of blind testing or how the conclusions must be backed by objectively verifiable evidence (opinion is not fact).

(BTW I am back from the grave... am I anonymous again yet?)


No.
 

Posted May 26, '13 at 6:10am

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,302 posts

Knight

Because my background is wholly different from yours.

 

Posted May 26, '13 at 9:03pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,782 posts

Knight

Looks like he won't be interested ...sigh.

 

Posted May 26, '13 at 9:32pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

I guess there's no point in keeping this thread open then. A shame, I was looking forward to seeing how everything would pan out.