ForumsWEPR[necro]Nazi unit leader found in US

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Somers
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Somers
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[url=http://news.msn.com/us/shock-lingers-after-nazi-unit-leader-found-in-us]

I kept seeing this on MSN, and it kinda bugged me. Anyways, to sum it up, "An Associated Press investigation found that Karkoc served as a top commander in the Ukrainian Self-Defense Legion during WWII. The unit is accused of wartime atrocities, including the burning of villages filled with women and children" -MSN

Read the article, its interesting. I wasn't aware people were still prosecuting ex Nazis. The man is 94 years old, and lives in Minneapolis. I want to know your opinions on this matter. Should he be prosecuted for crimes that was committed over 70 years ago?

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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As you all may know, I'm extremely racist, yet I hold it back on here. I respect a man who holds his race so high that he fights to keep it high.


Race is an arbitrary thing we apply to form groups. It's largely irrelevant genetically speaking.

Do Human Races Exist?
The Science of Human Races, Part 1
The Science of Human Race, Part 2

"Bele: It is obvious to the most simpleminded that Lokai is of an inferior breed.
Mr. Spock: The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself.
Bele: Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me. Look at me!
Captain James T. Kirk: You are black on one side and white on the other.
Bele: I am black on the right side!
" - Star Trek, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
Jacen96
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Jacen96
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"Bele: It is obvious to the most simpleminded that Lokai is of an inferior breed.
Mr. Spock: The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself.
Bele: Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me. Look at me!
Captain James T. Kirk: You are black on one side and white on the other.
Bele: I am black on the right side!" - Star Trek, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield


And their planet was destroyed in the conflict between left side black, and right side black.

Since, I don't feel like reading the last 7 pages, please excuse any points already debated.

This is one of the better known discrepancies about Hitler. Hitler was indeed Austrian, in the sense that he was a citizen of the state of Austria-Hungary, and not of the German Empire. However, he was by all accounts (dodging nasty rumors about being fractionally Jewish), an ethnic German, and that's all that matters. Austria Hungary was a ethnically varied place, with an equally cosmopolitan capital city, and the Germans were one of the more significant groups there.
Didn't he "gratefully" accepts austria's "desire" to be reunited with Germany?

And for being Jewish, if I remember correctly from WHAP, his mother at one point had relations with a jewish man, and some suspect that is who fathered hitler.

There are no race differences in humanity.
Everyone is different in their own way.

Spartans threw their handicap babies to their death, which only made them stronger
Their refusal to accept change was part of what brought about their downfall, iirc.

~~~Darth Caedus
nichodemus
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Didn't he "gratefully" accepts austria's "desire" to be reunited with Germany?

And for being Jewish, if I remember correctly from WHAP, his mother at one point had relations with a jewish man, and some suspect that is who fathered hitler.


He did enact Anschluss, although there's nothing in that action that has any bearing on this side discussion, unless you care to explain further.

The Jewish link has always been rumored, but never proven solidly.
partydevil
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partydevil
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he was by all accounts (dodging nasty rumors about being fractionally Jewish)

DNA research in the 90's in belgium has shown that hitler was part jewish and part african. of course his family could have abandoned the jewish believe generations ago. and so he wouldn't be really a jew anymore in the sense of religion and status. but it was part of his family somewhere in his family history.

an ethnic German, and that's all that matters. Austria Hungary was a ethnically varied place, with an equally cosmopolitan capital city, and the Germans were one of the more significant groups there.

so true. funny tho that his ubermensch was the scandinavian race and not the german race.... xD
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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DNA research in the 90's in belgium has shown that hitler was part jewish and part african. of course his family could have abandoned the jewish believe generations ago. and so he wouldn't be really a jew anymore in the sense of religion and status. but it was part of his family somewhere in his family history.


Quoted from Jewish Virtual Library

''A chromosome called Haplogroup E1b1b1 which showed up in [the Hitler] samples is rare in Western Europe and is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews ... Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.'' Again, this study, though scientific by nature, is inconclusive. ''


It would however, make an ironic twist in history.
danielo
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Its just an Urban myth. There was a trend to claim that everyone have jewish origins. Im not buying it.

Anyway, last time i checked, the german army wasnt part to 2 group, one doing war crimes and the other point a gun to the first group neck and threat to kill them.

Anyone who was in the SS vulenteerd to do so. If the masses didnt wanted to act so, they wouldnt. Hitler and his companions didnt had magical power.

Some peoples decided to bet on the wrong horse. And they lost.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Hitler and his companions didnt had magical power.

Hitler was a very gifted orator and the Germans were fed up with their situation. And later on repression was strong so many people wouldn't dare to act.

Though you're right that being in the SS is more than just following a good leader, and being a commander of an SS unit even more so.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Anyone who was in the SS vulenteerd to do so. If the masses didnt wanted to act so, they wouldnt. Hitler and his companions didnt had magical power.


The latter units in the war, especially the foreign ones, swung more to the side of conscription, rather than volunteerism, though the essence of your point still stands in this case.
danielo
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danielo
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There was a well known act (I dont remmember the name of the place right now), were the villagers of a town just slaghutered all the jews in the toqn, dragged them to a barren and fired it up, befor the german troops even got into the region. In hitler binker at the end of 1945 there wher french SS guards, protecting him.

Its easy yo say "They were victims too". But when most of the peoples just tried to survive, they joined in. They did unthinkble actes, which you dont do because someone threat you to do so. They did ot because they belived in the truth of there ideas.

This excuse of "I just listend to orders" is unacceptble.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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This excuse of "I just listend to orders" is unacceptble.


It's not inconceivable to shoot someone if you had a metaphorical gun at your own head. Of course we shouldn't forgive them, but persecuting the millions will be futile. I don't accept the Superior Orders plea which allowed dozens of Nazi leaders to go scot free at the Nuremburg Trials, but I think it has be extended to the lower ranks, if for practicality's sake.
danielo
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danielo
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Sure. But wsome suggested that he is not guilty because of that reason.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Its easy yo say "They were victims too". But when most of the peoples just tried to survive, they joined in. They did unthinkble actes, which you dont do because someone threat you to do so. They did ot because they belived in the truth of there ideas.


There may be another explanation.

Milgram experiment
Milgram Experiment (Derren Brown)

And this is what an average person will do without personal threat. It's just how the average person will react under authority. Now imagine this sort of psychology along with personal threat to obey.
danielo
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danielo
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I learnd psychigy, and made a close experiment to his byyself. I know that the human race is an *******.


I just aay, the ones who didnt wanted to act like that, didnt. All of these peoples belived in what they did. They belived so even befor Hitler came to power.

Even now, whenever a jewish person is doing something bad in some places, these "same" peoples, even if not th same individuals, accedently throw a Antisemetic say. Your car was stolne? Its these damm gypsies.
I heared peoples speak like that. Sure, in the internet, but this show there true feelings. Europe can redo the holocaoust in a blink of an eye if only they got the "excuse". We can see it in greece, we can see itin Hungary.

Thefunny thing is, that the european can still be the judges of the world, say who is right and who is wrong. And apearently Israel is always wrong.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Oh, danielo, please tell me how some Israeli don't go throwing stones at Pals and insulting them on the streets.

As you generalized your demonification of the human race, it is on one side wrong as you can't lump everyone in such an extreme bin, on the other side it shows such behaviours occur everywhere and anytime. It depends on the people, but it also depends on the situation.

I am not defending any wrong that was done, ever. But don't forget, we might still have problems with racist scum, as does pretty much any country; but we have learned some lessons, and if we aren't judge of our own people, some other coalition just like us will be (and who the f said we can be the judges of the world?).

partydevil
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the ones who didnt wanted to act like that, didnt. All of these peoples belived in what they did. They belived so even befor Hitler came to power.

hmm these people could also be forced by the public opinion.
if you didn't kill then like the rest of the village then you will be the traitor among them. and you probably die like the jews they are killing....

also can the village in france just have been afraid for the german razzias.
they might have been so afraid that they toke more people away then just the jews that they killed the jews by themself so that the germans work would have been done and that there no non-jews would be taken during such a razzia.

making the instand jump to. they believe it is right and they did it because they could. is just wrong....

Europe can redo the holocaoust in a blink of an eye if only they got the "excuse". We can see it in greece, we can see itin Hungary.

what conspiracies have you been reading?
europe can't redo the holocaust in a blink of an eye. europe has grown together. countries are not separate anymore. 1 crazy france leader can't just start another holocaust like that....

i dont know what you are seeing in greece and hungary but it by no means looks even close to a holocaust. in greece there is just a crisis. i have yet to see 1 argument speaking of killing greeks for what they didn't do.
hungary has a mad man in power atm. but he is not able to do anything.. period. much like the mad man we have walking around in my country. (luckily tho is our mad man not popular anymore)

Thefunny thing is, that the european can still be the judges of the world, say who is right and who is wrong. And apearently Israel is always wrong.

europe judges over europe. the UN judges internationally. and yes this is also done in europe but it's internationally. so it doesn't matter where it is. it is for everyone and not for europe. if the international court was in asia then asia would still be the judges of the world. if it was in australia then australia was the judges of the world. etc. etc.

apearently Israel is always wrong.

israel's existences is wrong.
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