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Traditional Catholics

Posted Jul 1, '13 at 10:21pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

3,950 posts

If you site three scientists down on a single issue each with a different interpretation, you will eventually get a single interpretation of the data.

If you site three priests down on a single issue each with a different interpretation, you will eventually get three different interpretations of the data.

I wasn't comparing religion and science methodology; I was talking about interpretations of how things work. Regarding EVERYTHING, how can we explain something with definitive certainty? There isn't much. We don't know everything there is to know about gravity, evolution, and a bunch of other stuff.

 

Posted Jul 1, '13 at 11:09pm

Freakenstein

Freakenstein

8,148 posts

Moderator

Regarding EVERYTHING, how can we explain something with definitive certainty?

We don't; saying a particular principle is 100% right defeats Science's own purpose of skepticism.

We can, however, gather enough recorded, demonstrable, and scrutinized data to at least have 99+% certainty that said principle is the truth.

 

Posted Jul 1, '13 at 11:34pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,071 posts

Knight

Let's try to focus on Traditional Catholicism and popes, shall we? I believe we can get a lot out of this thread if we try to remain specific.

What teachings differ today than what was once taught?  When did Traditional Catholicism start? What are some of the things today's popes have wrong? What are some of the things these popes do that are wrong?

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 7:14am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,676 posts

Knight

I was talking about interpretations of how things work.

So was I. When something is factually true we tend to converge rather than diverge on the point. This is because that point is independent of our personal interpretations.

What teachings differ today than what was once taught?

Off the top of my head, the Earth being flat, the acceptance of evolution (which as far as I can tell is a more recent thing in the last few years and may still be debatable depending on who you speak with.), giving women more freedom in the church, slavery...

When did Traditional Catholicism start?

Let's see, the earliest known use of the term "Catholic church" was around 107CE (AD if you prefer) This is about around the same time the last of the four gospels would have been written. We do however need to go further back than that. The earliest use of the term Christan comes from around 44CE However the earliest use of the term Christianity comes around the same time as the use of the term Catholic. Both stemming from the same source "Ignatius of Antioch". The first branching of a major Christian denomination was in 431CE  with another a couple decades later in 451.
However the first great schism between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism came in the 11th century around 1054. This was the result of major political and cultural  factors that built up over the years. (I would imagine not unlike the divergence between KD's version of Catholicism and the current church.)
The second schism was the Protestant Reformation happening in the 16th starting around 1517 thanks to martin Luther as well as several others. This turned into a war ending around the mid 18th century. if I remember correctly the protestant church saw the Catholic church as being too political and not following the word of God, but what they themselves were coming up with. (again doesn't sound that far off to what KD is saying about the current church.)
We can probably figure there were changes in the church that sparked each of these divisions. So that would mean not even Traditional Catholicism is really all that traditional since it would have all these centuries of change behind it leading up to Pope Pius XII (1876-1985, Pope since 1939).

What are some of the things these popes do that are wrong?

Other than be a Sith Lord?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/atheistjokes/PopePalpatine.png

Before I end this I would like to address one thing from those links.

"When one is young, one tends to be arrogant and proud.  One thinks they know it all and that what is new is always better."

The opposite can also be fallacious that one thinks that what is old is always better. Which is often the case when dealing with traditional views.

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 8:45am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,012 posts

Knight

I have always wondered why other Christian denominations pipe the erroneous belief that Catholics are not Christians. Ignorant mugs.

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 9:51am

Nerdsoft

Nerdsoft

1,009 posts

You might compare this to a few people viciously trying to shut up a pop star as he tries to sing a song about gay rights, as if some betrayal has happened. Get real. He doesn't have to want gays to marry, just for gays to buy his song. The same goes with the Church.
Perhaps the cardinals have had a change of heart. Perhaps they're just spouting this garbage to avoid getting lynched by progress. But history has taught that organisations don't survive and flourish by trying to impede ideals that will flourish either way.
I doubt that there's real change afoot. I just think that you can't suppress thought forever. And thought is reflected in actions. There will come a time where anyone who thinks two men or women marrying is wrong will be just laughed at. And I await that day.

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 5:26pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,676 posts

Knight

Perhaps they're just spouting this garbage to avoid getting lynched by progress. But history has taught that organisations don't survive and flourish by trying to impede ideals that will flourish either way.

This is probably what going on. I'm sure they can see just as easily as we can how church attendance has dropped. in an attempt to keep relevant who fortunately tend to be more progressive and tolerant.

If this Traditional Catholic church is about not changing and if what we see from KD is any indication, we are talking about a group living in a bubble.

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 10:40pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

1,343 posts

I just think that you can't suppress thought forever. And thought is reflected in actions. There will come a time where anyone who thinks two men or women marrying is wrong will be just laughed at. And I await that day.

why young knight, that day is already coming upon you. the problem with just the 1st 4 paragraphs (While having some good insight) is just too bigoted for this time. because of this, traditional catholicism will die. those who cling to tradition like a life-raft will be drowned by the very ocean of change they meant to float on. that is what adaptation is for.

-Blade

 

Posted Jul 2, '13 at 10:55pm

Wyrzen

Wyrzen

325 posts

why young knight, that day is already coming upon you. the problem with just the 1st 4 paragraphs (While having some good insight) is just too bigoted for this time. because of this, traditional catholicism will die. those who cling to tradition like a life-raft will be drowned by the very ocean of change they meant to float on. that is what adaptation is for.

Deep.

I don't know what exactly we're discussing here, but I do know that I'm not a huge fan of the true-ness of Catholicism. Like, after having to pay your way to heaven and many popes being pimps and living luxurious lives and the way new popes are chosen, the crusades and how brutal they were compared to the arabs....I just don't see it. I don't see, for those who believe, God's hand in that. And if you don't believe in God, even more reason to be like 'wut'.

I dunno, I just don't see the appeal other than you show up like twice and you're 'saved' or whatever.

 

Posted Jul 3, '13 at 12:10am

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

why young knight

You're quoting Nerdsoft.

 
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