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George Zimmermann Found Not Guilty

Posted Jul 16, '13 at 11:14am

Sonatavarius

Sonatavarius

1,344 posts

Can I get an explanation of the opinion of why the stand your ground law is so horrible in this case? I see those words used again and again when it played absolutely no part in this case. The defense team worked the self defense angle. They're two completely different things, so please stop saying that law played a part.

That being said... I shouldn't have to make a mad dash for my life or try to before attempting to defend it with deadly force.

 

Posted Jul 16, '13 at 11:29am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,082 posts

Knight

That being said... I shouldn't have to make a mad dash for my life or try to before attempting to defend it with deadly force.

Because killing someone is so much better than being beat up?

That being said, both parties most certainly could have avoided the outcome. I realize that is more difficult to claim for Zimmermann, being one of those stupid neighbourhood watch bound to poke his nose around; still, he shouldn't have followed Trayvon without evidence of the latter being up to no good. Of course noone knows what really happened, but this does neither support nor counter my point.

 

Posted Jul 16, '13 at 12:04pm

Sonatavarius

Sonatavarius

1,344 posts

Being beaten up allows for more than just a few sore bruises. There is potential for lifestyle ruining breaks, fractures, etc. There is also permanent disfiguration and brain injury to be considered. I shouldn't have to fight just because someone thinks they can force me to. When it comes to that scenario, I am responsible for my well being. I am not responsible for what the other party has chosen to do. They made their decision. If they end up dead, then it's no problem of mine. It's not much different than violent rape cases... Aside from the lack of the actual intercourse. Is it better for the woman to be violently beaten and raped than it is for her to stave it off with deadly force? If the would rapist dies before harming her, then I'd say, YES, the better outcome did in fact occur.

I'm not saying he was on the same level as a rapist, but I am saying there is not sufficient proof that says he didn't start assaulting Mr. Zimmerman no questions asked.

I have no way of knowing how things between the two individuals in question actually went down, but it doesn't sound like Mr. Martin had any intention of ceasing his pummeling of Mr. Zimmerman's head into the concrete (potentially deadly for the defender) at the point of the gun shot

 

Posted Jul 16, '13 at 8:02pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,691 posts

Knight

I wonder, though. Would the verdict be more palatable if it were tried in the UK where the additional verdict of 'Not Proven' is available? Perhaps it could help separate the natural equivocation between moral guilt and legal guilt?

Yes "proven" "not proven" might be a more accurate way to state it.

Another way to look at it is if we were to say extraterrestrials exist as a "guilty" verdict. Now we can say it's very likely that extraterrestrial life exists. We can say that just on the math alone. However for a guilty verdict we would have to say "not guilty" to the existence of extraterrestrial life. Because it's not good enough that something be very likely. It would have to be shown to be demonstrably so, beyond a shadow of doubt.

Can I get an explanation of the opinion of why the stand your ground law is so horrible in this case? I see those words used again and again when it played absolutely no part in this case. The defense team worked the self defense angle. They're two completely different things, so please stop saying that law played a part.

It's believed this law makes it far to difficult for aggressors to be prosecuted. For an example let's say a innocently kid goes into your yard and starts playing. For whatever reason that kids presence leaves you feeling threatened so you go out and shoot and kill that kid. You could get off as not guilty under this law.

Another problem is there is a clear racial bias when applying the law.
http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/sites/tcdailyplanet.net/files/2013/July/gun-privilege.jpg

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline … ound-laws/

Now personally I don't think having such a law is entirely a bad thing, but there are some clear flaws that need to be fixed for it to work effectively.

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 12:36am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

I think White is far too broad of a term. Based on links from that link, White includes people of Hispanic, Asian, Arabic, mixed, etc descent, greatly broadening the divide to non-black vs black.

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 12:45am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,704 posts

A straightforward example of this would be a person who is caught selling drugs by the police. But the police lacked the requisite search warrant (or what have you) thus any evidence they found would be inadmissible in court. In this case, we have someone who did commit a crime. But because of shoddy police work they should not be found guilty.

Wouldn't this fall under reasonable suspicion?

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 1:06am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,691 posts

Knight

I think White is far too broad of a term. Based on links from that link, White includes people of Hispanic, Asian, Arabic, mixed, etc descent, greatly broadening the divide to non-black vs black.

When you really get down to racial profiling the skin color is really all that matters.

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 1:40am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

When you really get down to racial profiling the skin color is really all that matters.

Sure, but there are plenty of "tan" profiling incidents as well, like in AZ for Hispanics or NY for Arabs. So it's not as simple as really dark vs everything else.

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 1:54am

Sonatavarius

Sonatavarius

1,344 posts

then you also have white Hispanics like Zimmerman  and white blacks like the president who skew the white vs black world and give us this continuum of craziness in between that we just don't know what to do with! They don't fit in anywhere!!! What do I do??

 

Posted Jul 17, '13 at 2:03am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

@Sonatavarius
That's closer to my point. We're becoming more of a blended society where a strict White vs Black can no longer exist. It becomes a literal grey area of much lighter vs lighter vs slightly lighter vs moderate vs slightly darker vs darker vs much darker. But no one can say absolutely where those lines are drawn, so it's generalized as "darker + much darker" vs "the rest".

 
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