ForumsWEPRGeorge Zimmermann Found Not Guilty

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Maverick4
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Maverick4
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xeano321
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xeano321
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The whole case is just a little funny... I have to say though, that when you look at the hard facts of the case and take out all the assumptions and stuff, that Zimmermann killed him in self defense. There is no proof of racial profiling. People protesting over this is just silly.

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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that when you look at the hard facts of the case and take out all the assumptions and stuff, that Zimmermann killed him in self defense. There is no proof of racial profiling. People protesting over this is just silly.


^Exactly. Everyone is acting on their feelings on the matter and making mere assumptions.

It's sad, too..point out the facts, and people call you a racist and whatnot.
Getoffmydangle
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Getoffmydangle
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I'm disappointed by the verdict. But our justice system is setup to err on the side of 'not guilty.' The old phrase: "its better to let 10 guilty men go free than imprison 1 innocent man."

An individual does have the right to self defense if their person is in danger.


Hypothetically, if I start a fight with someone and they start beating the crap out of me, I can shoot them because *At that Moment* I feel legitimately concerned for my safety. Completely disregarding everything else that led up to me feeling concerned for my safety? The point here is at what point does the "self-defender" have to take responsibility for putting themselves in said danger?
I'm not a legal expert, but zimmerman is guilty of something. From a moral standpoint, he is responsible for that kid's death.

To answer your questions: Why was Martin in a gated community, where crime has been a problem (as evidenced by a neighborhood watch)?

Ok, not calling you a racist, but the black kid was in the gated community because his father lived there.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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The point here is at what point does the "self-defender" have to take responsibility for putting themselves in said danger?


Well..saying that he was merely approaching Martin, and not threatening him or instigating a fight, I would say the responsibility is not much upon him.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
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The point here is at what point does the "self-defender" have to take responsibility for putting themselves in said danger?
I suppose you think women ought to dress modestly to prevent rape.

I have no opinion on this case nor do I have any facts. So I'll say this:
-Gut reaction I'm glad he got off because I hate to see someone convicted of something.
-Yes, it was a race thing. Like, racist. Against black people. That is a safe bet in our criminal justice system.
partydevil
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partydevil
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what can i say.... usa?

gamer1111111
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gamer1111111
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I think zimmerman got lucky with not guilty. He directly disobayed police telling him not to follow Trayvon Martin and ended up killing him. But I don't think everyone should think Zimmerman is happy about this whole thing. He killed someone regardless of whether he murdered someone or not. I believe it will haunt him for the rest of his life. He will probably have to go into hiding for the next couples years. Both Zimmerman and Martin made a mistake. Zimmerman followed him, and Martin was claimed to be hostile to him. But ultimately Zimmerman was the adult and should have handled the situation better, and because he didn't a young man died.

Getoffmydangle
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Getoffmydangle
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I suppose you think women ought to dress modestly to prevent rape.


You suppose wrong (laughably wrong). Let me try to explain where I think you went wrong in your supposition. In my hypothetical, I started a fight, then killed the guy who was beating me up. To fit that into the rape conversation, (a women) would have to initiate sexual intercourse with someone, and then kill them for raping (her).

-Gut reaction I'm glad he got off because I hate to see someone convicted of something.
-Yes, it was a race thing. Like, racist. Against black people. That is a safe bet in our criminal justice system.


So am I to conclude that your gut reaction is pleased that something racist happened?
Maverick4
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Maverick4
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not calling you a racist


How does my not being omniscient make me a racist?

He directly disobayed police telling him not to follow Trayvon Martin and ended up killing him


A dispatcher said that they did not need Zimmerman to follow Martin. A dispatcher is not a police officer, nor in any event was Zimmerman ordered not to follow Martin.

So am I to conclude that your gut reaction is pleased that something racist happened?


What does race have to do with it? Both are minorities (Martin is African, Zimmerman Peruvian), no? Show me proof that it aas a racist incident; Because the State of Florida simply must not have tried hard enough.
HahiHa
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But ultimately Zimmerman was the adult and should have handled the situation better, and because he didn't a young man died.

I don't know all details of the story, but I sort of agree with that one. Zimmermann may have acted within legal bounds of self defense, but only because those bounds are so foggy and noone really knows much of what happened. I am convinced this death could have been reasonably avoided, and this only adds to my discomfort regarding self-declared civil milice.
Getoffmydangle
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Getoffmydangle
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Well..saying that he was merely approaching Martin, and not threatening him or instigating a fight, I would say the responsibility is not much upon him.


well crux of the matter is that the whole story will never be known, and all we have to go on is the killer's side of the story. That ambiguity is probably why he was acquitted (conveniently that is also why organized crime bosses are so hard to convict, because there is no one there to testify against them).

Anyway, Here are the undisputed facts as I understand them: Man with gun suspects that unarmed teenager is a criminal and follows him. There was a physical altercation of some sort, and man shoots teenager.

We don't know who started the fight but we know who ended it. The man was the only one with a motive (pursuing a suspected criminal) as far as i can see. Trayvon was simply walking home from the quik-e-mart. The man was the only one with a weapon. To me, this seems to point towards zimmerman being the aggressor. He had a weapon and motive. Trayvon was on Zimmerman's radar, not the otherway around.
I realize the prosecution may not have proven this beyond a reasonable doubt, And I am not a juror on this case, but if we had to guess, I'd would guess that he is guilty. What this probably means is that if the parents sue him in a civil case, they will win easily. In a criminal case, guilt needs to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." But in a civil case, the prosecution just has to be (at a minimum) slightly more convincing than the defense. This will probably go down like the OJ situation where he is found not criminally guilty, but will easily be found civilly responsible for trayvon's death.
dair5
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From what I heard zimmerman followed trayvon, started a conflict and after trayvon started beating him up he killed him. Even if zimmerman didn't start the fight, he still got out of his car to follow trayvon, and shouldn't that make trayvon worried? I don't see how zimmerman was defending himself if he started tthe conflict.

What does race have to do with it? Both are minorities (Martin is African, Zimmerman Peruvian), no? 


Racism does happen between minorities though. It happens pretty often between Blacks and Latinos. Even between different Latinos. I'm not saying race was or wasn't a part of it. Just that it isn't ruled out because they're both minorities.
Getoffmydangle
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Getoffmydangle
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How does my not being omniscient make me a racist?


First of all, I said i wasn't calling you racist.
Second, it is widely available knowledge what trayvon was doing in the gated community. I was merely answering your question, and I realized that doing so might cause people to infer that I was calling you a racist for assuming that a black kid didn't belong in the gated community.

What does race have to do with it? Both are minorities (Martin is African, Zimmerman Peruvian), no? Show me proof that it aas a racist incident; Because the State of Florida simply must not have tried hard enough.


Oh dear...
first of all, you didn't read the context of my reply. I was replying to Xzeno who had made consecutive statements about being pleased by the verdict and affirming that it was probably racist. I was just replying to xzeno, not making any assertions of my own about whether or not it was racist. But really, do you need "proof" that zimmerman saw a black kid and was suspicious? If he had seen a jewish kid, an asian kid, a white kid, etc., we would not be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have thought twice about it.

Secondly, again, not calling you racist, but racism does not mean white people vs _____. Other races can be racists too. Just as an example, I hear from Mexicans all the time who hate Salvadorians (idk why), black people, and middle eastern people.
pangtongshu
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We don't know who started the fight but we know who ended it.


We do have eye witness accounts. As much as I despise eye witnesses..they are still powerful in court.

From what I heard zimmerman followed trayvon, started a conflict


Martin started the fight...with even some racial slurs of his own
Maverick4
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Anyway, Here are the undisputed facts as I understand them: Man with gun suspects that unarmed teenager is a criminal and follows him. There was a physical altercation of some sort, and man shoots teenager.


Zimmerman did not know Martin to be unarmed at the time.

The man was the only one with a motive


I do not think that word means, what you think it means.

Zimmerman was on a Neighborhood Watch -- He was supposed to look for suspicious individuals.

Trayvon was simply walking home from the quik-e-mart. The man was the only one with a weapon


Both piece of information were unknowable to Zimmerman at the time of the incident.

but if we had to guess


I assume the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" means nothing to you?

UPDATE: DoJ Faces roadblock in attempt to file civil rights charges against Zimmerman, as the FBI found no evidence that Zimmerman was a racist, nor that the shooting was racially motivated.
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