ForumsWEPRWhy do we do what we do?

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partydevil
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partydevil
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i often think about the human psychology, how we behave in different situations, with different people around us.
what we do & don't to get attention and acceptance. what we do & don't to avoid certain people and situations.

what makes our brains to go highwire when we meet that special one, this soulmate?
why didn't we get this feeling when we met someone almost identical to this one, but at the same time so different person?

what makes us do so much for someone else, when we're not even doing anything even close to that for ourselves? or are all those things we do for others just another way for us to something for ourselves?
are we forever bound to be selfish, but with manipulative excuses (such as favors) to hide our true intentions?

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KnightDeclan
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oh well, i c reincarnation as it is commonly spoken of because i dont believe it exists at all. people somehow magically had a life once befor this life.. and when you die you go to hell or heaven for eternity... very contradicting, but that is almost all of magical religious stuff anyway.
so your question "what do i think it is." - i think it is non-existing. and therefor non-interesting. =)


Well, sorry to say, that's not reincarnation. That's the same life, just a time without the SAME body.

I'm really interested to know your opinion on one thing, namely morality in animals. The question is still open, but it seems some animals may indeed possess a kind of morality.

As you say human psychology, and thus probably also morality, comes from god, where does animal psychology and morality come from?


Human's possess free will to change their natural coding. There is a natural inclination to follow the natural law, which all animals follow, which comes from God. We know this as "Instinct".

Well, morality likes to divide things in black and white, as it is the easiest way. Sadly, our beautiful world is rarely like that. Which is why I prefer to judge the situation instead of following a code, religious or social, that says "you shall not do this under any circumstance".


That is where our free will comes in. Animals HAVE to keep to their coding, for they have stayed the same all throughout time. But God gave us free will, not only to prove that we TRULY love HIm, but also to use our talents He gave us to excel. We can judge things on our own, but they may or may not always be the right choice.

I would seem that a religious morality could go against the more worldly. If this God were to will an action that would cause harm, loss of structure or disease, then that would naturally be moral.
For example. Let's say this God willed it that your girlfriend be gang raped pregnant. Then willed it that after some time you remove the baby and smash it against a bunch of stones. In the religious sense as you describe, that action would have to be moral and to do otherwise would be immoral.


Abortion is a grievous sin which God cannot will. If He wanted the baby dead, he would do it so that the baby would feel no pain, for babies are sinless creatures. So this is not a 'fit' example.

Stealing food from a store to feed your poor starving family.


God provides to all men what is necessary. There is ALWAYS a morally good way out. The father could get a job, beg, go hunting, fishing, farming, or scavenging. Stealing wouldn't be God's will. And though it provides good for the family, it provides hurt to the shop owner, so it is NOT morally good.
No evil can be done for the sake of some good

can i get a topic name change plz.?
instead of "why do we do what we do?" can it become "god and morals" plz. =)


"Why do we do what we do?" This can ONLY be answered in two ways. Religious or scientific. But our ways of life are so complex, that a dull scientifical answer could not be sufficient.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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There is a natural inclination to follow the natural law, which all animals follow, which comes from God. We know this as "Instinct".

Does that include animal homosexuality? Why would God encode it if it's something He despises?

Abortion is a grievous sin which God cannot will.

Hosea 13:16

But our ways of life are so complex, that a dull scientifical answer could not be sufficient.

Complexity is not an excuse to insert magic.
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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are you ignorant about animal behaviour? or do you just choose to not see it? because this has nothing to do with belief anymore.

animal homosexuality, a dog adopting a cat, a cat breastfeeding a cat thats not hers (witnessed myself), different personalities (which is easily seen in so many different animals).

when it comes to morality id say most animals are closer to heaven then most humans.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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I think we reached a similar achievement as Frankenstein, except our monster is built from scraps of all heavily debated points like morals, abortion, free will...

... can we go back to specific questions about human psychology/behaviour? *puppy-eyes*

partydevil
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partydevil
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can we go back to specific questions about human psychology/behaviour?


maybe this will give a good specific question. i'm gonna try to get on it more tomorrow. =)

"what are our actions to bring over these morals when we raise up a child?
and what could we do ourself now or in in the past as child perhaps, that could possibly change our morals on something?
"
Salvidian
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I understand that this is a little off-topic, but I felt like sharing it quick. Afterwards I'll be gone. :P

If you're an American high school student not currently enrolled in a psychology class, I highly recommend you take AP Psychology. It's offered in almost every public school and it's a fantastic class. If you're worried about taking an AP class, fear not, because the material is pretty easy to grasp and is well worth any struggle you might come across. I had absolutely no understanding of psychology until I took the class, and when I left I felt like I could tackle any question relating to the subject that was given to me. The AP board and the author of the textbook (who's name escapes me) are wonderful guides in the field.

Remember the Something thread that had you all going crazy? Yeah, that's the kind of fun stuff you get to do in the class.

MageGrayWolf
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Abortion is a grievous sin which God cannot will.


First off that whole thing was lifted from parts from the Bible, so yeah. As sin is what goes against the will of God. If God is willing this then it wouldn't be a grievous sin. If God can't will because they are wrong then they what is "naturally moral" is not dependent on what God wills. It also doesn't matter if this God would will such a thing or not.
The point is that if this God did will such a thing your statement that what is naturally moral is what God wills would have to mean that doing those things would be moral.

for they have stayed the same all throughout time.


Wrong, but I'll move on.

God provides to all men what is necessary.


This was not in the perspective of the religious view. You have now failed to see things from another perspective on this matter.

You know I think I'm just going to leave it at that. There seems to be a call for a change in direction.

"what are our actions to bring over these morals when we raise up a child?
and what could we do ourself now or in in the past as child perhaps, that could possibly change our morals on something?"


If I'm understanding the question right are you asking what can we do to instil our moral values in our children and what could we do to change what we see as morally right and wrong?
KnightDeclan
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Does that include animal homosexuality? Why would God encode it if it's something He despises?


That's made up to make homos feel more 'natural'

Hosea 13:16


Fair point, but again, we human's can't do what God can do. He created us, and he can rule us. He may kill us, but it's not considered murder. He can take from us, but it is not considered stealing. When He kills, he does it for example or punishment. Abortion is done for selfishness and laziness.

Complexity is not an excuse to insert magic.


It's not magic, and please stop calling it that. Magic is witchcraft and it is evil, which God is not.

animal homosexuality, a dog adopting a cat, a cat breastfeeding a cat thats not hers (witnessed myself), different personalities (which is easily seen in so many different animals).


Aside from the homosexuality (seahorses do not count XD) those actions are all done in nature. Now animals aren't robots. They can be tamed, trained, and they have emotions in a way. So they CAN behave differently, but they cannot change in nature.

"what are our actions to bring over these morals when we raise up a child?
and what could we do ourself now or in in the past as child perhaps, that could possibly change our morals on something?"


Bring over these morals? please explain.

If you're an American high school student not currently enrolled in a psychology class, I highly recommend you take AP Psychology. It's offered in almost every public school and it's a fantastic class. If you're worried about taking an AP class, fear not, because the material is pretty easy to grasp and is well worth any struggle you might come across. I had absolutely no understanding of psychology until I took the class, and when I left I felt like I could tackle any question relating to the subject that was given to me. The AP board and the author of the textbook (who's name escapes me) are wonderful guides in the field.


I do agree, I love this class, but it may be slightly different in a private high school. But it does show what the rest of the school system tries to dull and darken: creativity, thinking outside the box, and knowledge of a greater good over government and society.

Wrong, but I'll move on.


As I do not believe in evolution, I do not agree that it's wrong.

This was not in the perspective of the religious view. You have now failed to see things from another perspective on this matter.


Please explain

And I promise to leave this thread alone after i finish these few topic, i will not bring up a new one.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Morality is measured by whether or not it's end or goal is naturally good or bad. The natural law (Killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc.) in addition to the Church Law (Eating meat on friday is wrong, worshipping false Gods is wrong, Taking our Lords name in vain is wrong) both tell whether something is morally good or bad.


That still doesn't take into account how some things are good and bad for different groups of people

Also..you mentioned how good is measured by if the end result is good or bad. So would you justify that "bad" actions could be taken if the end result was "good". (for example..Hitler and his actions with Germany. Turned Germany into a powerhouse, made great advances in medicinal research, etc. while performing horrendous acts.)

Those are both branches of the basic tendencies


Explain...because these have nothing to do with food or water.

Our bodies were made to be dependant on God and His work, but we also must be independent in ways where we have to recharge ourselves and and regain our energy.


That dodges the question. It would be beneficial for us in so many ways if we didn't have the need to "recharge"..why hinder us so?

There is no such thing as multiple bodies sharing a soul.


That has nothing to do with Reincarnation.

it's not about the human psychology or behavior anymore but your morals and gods stuff.


In terms of religious ideas..it can be connected. Our psychology and behavior being based off of morals handed to us from a deity.

Please explain what you think reincarnation is.


It's the soul passing from one body to the next..not multiple bodies sharing a soul.

Good things, naturally, are those of the will of God, and bad, against it


[note: this is of a more philosophical debate..so please do not think I am trying to argue the idea of a deity.]

But what makes something good for Yahweh? Why does it prefer certain things and detest others?

Human's possess free will to change their natural coding.


How do we know this, though? How do we know we are changing out natural coding and not actually following instinct?

There is a natural inclination to follow the natural law, which all animals follow, which comes from God.


What about animals that break this natural law?

If you're an American high school student not currently enrolled in a psychology class, I highly recommend you take AP Psychology.


^
Can't agree more

author of the textbook (who's name escapes me) are wonderful guides in the field.


My textbook's author sucked =/

That's made up to make homos feel more 'natural'


It's observed in nature..so not made up.

Abortion is done for selfishness and laziness.


What about the idea that the aborted baby, essentially, gets a free pass to heaven?

Magic is witchcraft and it is evil,


1) Magic isn't real..so there is that.

2) If it was..not all magic is evil.
HahiHa
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Magic is witchcraft and it is evil

Magic/witchcraft is more specifically not even part of the christian belief system, so technically your statement is heretic.

Anyway...

"what are our actions to bring over these morals when we raise up a child?
and what could we do ourself now or in in the past as child perhaps, that could possibly change our morals on something?"

The actions we take to teach morals to our young ones are in practice very different. But essentially you try to show them what is wrong and what is right according to you, by either pushing them to the right choices and/or punishing them for the wrong ones. So you try to transmit your morals to them.

Things that can change your morals even as na adult, is if your morals have been showed to be wrong, when you realise they can't effectively sort all actions in the right "bins". Then either you change, or adapt your morals.

That's some of the first things that come across my mind when I think of this.
MageGrayWolf
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Declan each of your points deserves it's own detailed rebuttal but seeing as non of it would really be on topic I will just summarize with this.

Also..you mentioned how good is measured by if the end result is good or bad. So would you justify that "bad" actions could be taken if the end result was "good". (for example..Hitler and his actions with Germany. Turned Germany into a powerhouse, made great advances in medicinal research, etc. while performing horrendous acts.)


Perhaps another example of moral ambiguity would be with moral experiments such as switching train tracks to save either one person or five. Or in another variant harvesting and this killing one person so that five could live with those harvested organs.

But what makes something good for Yahweh? Why does it prefer certain things and detest others?


Perhaps another topic should be started on that exact point?
pangtongshu
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Perhaps another topic should be started on that exact point?


Done.

Any posts regarding the topic of why something is good/bad please move to Here
thebluerabbit
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That's made up to make homos feel more 'natural'


as others said before. the nicest thing about science is that whether you believe it or not its true. and this isnt even complicated science. just observation. plenty of animals have homosexual "relationships".

why dont seahorses count? because you dont want them too?
what about the 2 penguins that were together, given an egg and even took care of it?
wolves/dogs have plenty of homosexual sex.

maybe you dont want to believe it but thats how it is. in fact, there were two giraffes here in an israel zoo that had sex together from time to time and because they were gay many religious extremists protested because they wanted them dead.
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