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United States with Capitalism

Posted Sep 22, '13 at 2:53pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

But at least here it seems like you get what you pay for.


The United States has the most expensive healthcare in the world, and is ranked at 38th.

And it's way below the UKs rating.
 

Posted Sep 22, '13 at 5:10pm

Moegreche

Moegreche

3,064 posts

Moderator

That's a cool link. And now I don't know what to think. Although it may be worth noting that the expenditure per capita of the UK is rated a 26 whilst the US is a 1. I don't know what these number refer to exactly, though. Is that 26 units of the relevant currency to 1 person? But surely it's not that. Still, I wonder why the UK isn't higher or the US lower given the discrepancy between those two numbers. I don't really understand the table to begin with, though.

 

Posted Sep 22, '13 at 5:34pm

Nerdsoft

Nerdsoft

1,213 posts

I would be very hesitant to have a major surgery performed in the UK given the number of mistakes that occur on a daily basis.

The NHS, to be fair, is pretty bad. But they will often actually hand the job over to private hospitals, so in that way they are equivalent to a health insurance company with fixed rates.
 

Posted Sep 22, '13 at 8:44pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

According to the linked Wikipedia article:

It developed a series of performance indicators to assess the overall level and distribution of health in the populations, and the responsiveness and financing of health care services.


Like Moe, I'm not sure what to make of the list. I don't know what the study measures. However, it might just measure how much healthcare is distributed among the people. If that's the case, any country with "already been payed" healthcare will rank higher than "pay at the window" care.

A lot of people believe health care should be available to absolutely everyone, no matter what. However, there are many implications that are often ignored. As Moe mentioned, some hospital visits are quite frivolous - such as the man going to the hospital for a splinter.

It seems like people who live under the public healthcare system are quite happy with said system. But why is that? Perhaps most of these people have never had major emergencies, therefore they never felt like they needed to rush. Some of these people get free care for treating expensive ailments. I have to wonder, what about those who have been harmed by the public healthcare system?

In the U.S., I have never heard of availability being a big problem. Most people who want healthcare are just afraid - not ill or in need of it. The problem with American healthcare is that those who do get sick, very sick, often can't afford the best treatments.

I'm all for privatized healthcare, but I'll admit that I need to do more research into the issue. I've heard redicilous stories about public health care, but I've also heard people who depend on it, praise it.

Who benefits most in each system?
Do people who have more money deserve better care?
Who gets hurt the most in each system?
How much do the people pay in each system? (People pay for public health care through taxes - so it's not free)
How much does supply suffer in each system?
 

Posted Sep 22, '13 at 8:45pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

"Like Moe, I'm not sure what to make of the list. I don't know what the study measures. However, it might just measure how much healthcare is distributed among the people. If that's the case, any country with "already been payed" healthcare will rank higher than "pay at the window" care."

Apologies for the double post. I realized what I said obviously isn't true since many countries are ranked below the U.S. I hope my point remains semi-valid.

 

Posted Sep 23, '13 at 2:19am

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

Who benefits most in each system?


In a privatized system, the people who benefit most are the hospital owners, doctors, and insurance companies. Healthcare is a product that everyone is going to consume at one point or another, thus the people -must- buy it or suffer with their ailments. You might argue that competition will drive down prices, but it's such a specialized field that requires enormously expensive assets (doctor's education, the facilities and equipment) that the price will be much higher than the average person can afford, which is why health insurance is such a huge thing to have. However, these insurance companies know that, and charge you up the wall for it, because your other option is paying for it entirely yourself and then you're screwed.

Do people who have more money deserve better care?


I would say that everyone has the right to be treated, for whatever their illness is. No one should have to suffer, because they don't have the money to afford a procedure that can (and often does) literally mean life or death, or a definite change in quality of life and happiness.

Who gets hurt the most in each system?


In a capitalistic system, the middle/lower class. In a socialist system, only those who are not wealthy enough to go to a private system but wealthy enough that they could have afforded better care in a non-socialized system. However, that only applies if the socialized system cannot treat them adequately for some reason.

How much do the people pay in each system? (People pay for public health care through taxes - so it's not free)


The money is getting paid one way or another. In a capitalistic system, that money comes out of each individual person's pocket. Those who can't afford it out of their pocket, don't. In a socialistic system, everyone is presumably paying a portion of their income into the system, so that everyone can have the care they need if/when they need it. Overall expenditures mean that the rich pay more, while the lower/middle class pays less.

How much does supply suffer in each system?


I seriously doubt supply would be a problem. There -might- be a slightly longer waiting period because, as you mentioned, people will go for less dire reasons, but overall I'd imagine there's little to no difference in average wait time. Hell, even in privatized care, you have to wait. The whole argument that socialized care will take longer and thus have people die from waiting is an exaggeration and ignoring that the exact same thing can happen in the system we have in the USA.
 

Posted Sep 23, '13 at 3:27am

mbbs112

mbbs112

174 posts

People are Greedy nowadays,mostly in USA which used to be The worlds Superpower but is steadily declining that title

 

Posted Sep 23, '13 at 3:33am

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

People are Greedy nowadays,mostly in USA which used to be The worlds Superpower but is steadily declining that title


Greed is by no means limited to the USA. You'll find it wherever people live.

Also, the reason the USA became a superpower is because they were largely left alone for 250 years to expand through a ridiculously large, resource abundant area that had been completely untapped. Then WW1 came around and they were the only major player not rebuilding and had been profiting for nearly 5 years on the war. WW2 just solidified that position even further when the same crap played out all over again.
 

Posted Sep 23, '13 at 3:36am

mbbs112

mbbs112

174 posts

What do you mean? America is has become a really greedy and corrupt country due to its current presidents: Bush and Obama otherwise it was a nice country with Ronald Regan as president and my parents even met him when they came to America,said that he was a kind man.

 

Posted Sep 23, '13 at 4:20am

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

America is has become a really greedy and corrupt country due to its current presidents:


Compared to other countries, it's not so corrupt.

Here's a chart.

Bush and Obama otherwise it was a nice country


You're very naive, is really all I have to say about that.
 
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