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United States with Capitalism

Posted Sep 27, '13 at 6:12pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

We know why it's expensive. The cost of training doctors is high, because it takes a long time. The cost of the equipment used is high, because of the materials used and high development costs of those. The cost of the hospital building is high, because in order to be competitive they must offer a wide range of services. And most of all, the cost is high because doctors, hospital owners, and insurance companies want to make money, and they know you're going to have to buy healthcare, plus insurance isn't profitable unless the person never actually uses what they're paying for.


Then lets fix these problems. Right here. The ones you mentioned.

Lets figure out why education is so ridiculously expensive. Why the machines cost so much. Why there isn't competition between hospitals and why insurance companies don't compete more fiercely.

Prices are high, so it's a cost issue. Forcing everyone to pay for insurance won't decrease the prices at all. Let's find a real solution, not a band aid.

Your goal is to make sure everyone is covered - no matter what the cost. My goal is to decrease the cost, therefore everyone can afford coverage.
 

Posted Sep 27, '13 at 6:40pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

Your goal is to make sure everyone is covered - no matter what the cost. My goal is to decrease the cost, therefore everyone can afford coverage.


I don't care how it's done, so long as the end result is anyone needing treatment can receive what they need without worrying they're going to be forced to leave their home just to pay for it.

The reason I keep advocating a socialistic method is because we know that method works. We have examples of how to do it from various countries around the world. And right now, people are dying and suffering because our healthcare system sucks when it comes to everything other than the quality of the treatment itself.

Lets figure out why education is so ridiculously expensive. Why the machines cost so much. Why there isn't competition between hospitals and why insurance companies don't compete more fiercely.

Prices are high, so it's a cost issue. Forcing everyone to pay for insurance won't decrease the prices at all. Let's find a real solution, not a band aid.


So what do you suggest?
 

Posted Sep 27, '13 at 7:56pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,776 posts

Knight

This might be of interest comparing the cost per person to the average life expectancy from different countries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/HC-Graph.jpg/780px-HC-Graph.jpg

Full res

I find it interesting that the apparently more costly socialized systems cost less than the US and provide a far better life expectancies in their countries.

Perhaps we should look at what else other countries in contract are getting. Maybe the healthcare is less efficient, so how about we look at the amenable mortality (unnecessary and untimely premature deaths from certain causes that are potentially preventable with timely and effective health care) vs. what we see int he US.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publications/In-the-Literature/2011/Sep/~/media/Images/Publications/In%20the%20Literature/2011/Sep/Preventable%20Death%20l.gif

The argument of each paying our own way may hold more water if we were dealing with something that we didn't all need to some degree or another.

 

Posted Sep 27, '13 at 8:19pm

SSTG

SSTG

11,365 posts

Knight

I find it interesting that the apparently more costly socialized systems cost less than the US and provide a far better life expectancies in their countries.

Lets start by closing all the loopholes that greedy and selfish riches use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, eliminate the middlemen everywhere, bring back the government people's salary down to normal instead of astronomically high, keep a tight watch on services provided by the States to avoid corruption and overspending. Right there the budget would be balanced and then we can start implementing working solutions.
 

Posted Sep 27, '13 at 10:17pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,437 posts

Lets start by closing all the loopholes that greedy and selfish riches use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes

The actual 'loopholes' are rare; sure some offshoring and other money shifting. It's still a good thing if some restrictions are put on those, but the main way they 'avoid' taxes is by not having a wage/salary income, but dividends instead, which have low capital gains rates. But if that's increased too much, it deters investing in businesses, greatly slowing the economy.
 

Posted Sep 29, '13 at 5:36pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,776 posts

Knight

Lets start by closing all the loopholes that greedy and selfish riches use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, eliminate the middlemen everywhere, bring back the government people's salary down to normal instead of astronomically high, keep a tight watch on services provided by the States to avoid corruption and overspending. Right there the budget would be balanced and then we can start implementing working solutions.


Does this only exist in the US as apposed to the other countries that seem to have things with healthcare under control?
 

Posted Oct 2, '13 at 1:46pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,704 posts

And, as I said before, there were zero moral issues when it came to the price of goods after Katrina. You're completely ignoring supply and demand.


I'm not ignoring supply and demand..I've stated each time how these people had to purchase these goods..they had no say in the matter. The only person with any say were those that got to choose the amount the people had to fork over.

Now, as a Libertarian, from my understanding, you are all about personal freedom..correct? I understand the point of the market..but why is the freedom scratched in terms of the consumers who lost their freedom when they were made to purchase these items due to Katrina? Granted, they had a choice, but the other option was that of, essentially, homelessness or even death.
 

Posted Oct 2, '13 at 4:59pm

SSTG

SSTG

11,365 posts

Knight

Look what's going on right now. Some rich ********, Republican mostly are holding the government hostage. These traitors should be thrown in jail!
Maybe next time people will think twice about electing those unpatriotic weasels!

 

Posted Oct 3, '13 at 9:40pm

SSTG

SSTG

11,365 posts

Knight

Wow look what I just found! Interesting, VERY interesting!
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-03/republicans-are-no-longer-the-party-of-business#r=read

See what those Tea Party terrorists are doing to the economy?
I think Republicans need to wake up and throw these morons out of their party before they're screwed for good.

 

Posted Oct 19, '13 at 4:07pm

Nerdsoft

Nerdsoft

1,213 posts

I think Republicans need to wake up and throw these morons out of their party before they're screwed for good.

Can't; the GOP passed a nutcase event horizon a while back so they're bigger than the smart lot and they haven't yet invented a new mental condition that allows them to just throw the lot of 'em into the loonybin.
Bring back good old-fashioned two-faced politics! Eradicate honesty in government!
 
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