ForumsWEPRSouthern Pride and the Rebel Flag

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Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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http://hdwpapers.com/walls/confederate_rebel_flag_wallpaper_hd-other.jpg

I believe I may have started a similar thread a long time ago, but I'm too lazy to find it. I think that the normals nowadays are different than back then (save for a few usernames I've never not seen floating around)...so I'm going to start a new discussion.

I will start with a question. What comes to your mind when you see the Rebel flag / Southern Cross / Southern Battle flag or some image representing/incorporating it?

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2323/2280804506_8da895158c_o.jpg
^the flag of the state of Mississippi

Does the flag incite rage? Does it excite a little southern pride in you? Does it represent hatred and suffering to you?....and why? What is your opinion of the people who would desire to fly it in public?

I'll leave it here for now and wait to see if anyone is interested in the subject before I ramble any further

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Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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the first image didn't go through... but here's another one
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.985610!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/confederatewire2n-1-web.jpg

my apologies for the mistake

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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No rage from me, nor southern pride...but that is probably because I'm not southern.

Hating the flag for a small portion of what it used to represent would be like hating the Stars and Stripes for slavery, black oppression, female oppression, homosexual oppression, etc.

Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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I don't have the link at the moment, but there is a group somewhere in maybe Virginia that is trying to get the flag reinstated as their state flag or at least part of it. They've put a giant flag on the side of the interstate to show their pride. I got into a fb argument with some people that felt that it represented slavery and that it made those who would fly it a backwards backwoods redneck hate loving racist klansman for doing it too. According to the research of some and the supposed historical letters of others a sizable portion of the noteworthy Confederates had great distaste for the practice of slavery and some of the northern generals and such maintained their slave ownership til they were forced to concede (past the point in time when Appomattox had taken place)... if those crazy statements happened to be true can you actually say that freedom won that day? It's just my opinion, but I think maybe slavery was in its dying breaths at the time. Soon to be technological advancements would have made the act too costly and inefficient to maintain. It's possible that the southern states had the opportunity to have this great epiphany on their own stolen from them. Maybe we would have had less of a problem with racism had the country been allowed to figure it out on our own over the course of one or two more generations. It almost seems like the very act of a war having had occurred for the supposed reason of freeing slaves (some debate the true reasons!) has solidified a permanent well by which racism and hatred will be drawn and ever divide us. Who knows if that's actually true tho...

Maverick4
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That's actually the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The CSA's flag fielded the naval jack in the upper corner, on a field of white. A red verticle banner was at the opposite end. It never revieved wide spread use, however, since the white field made it look like a flag of surrender whenever the wind was 't blowing. ^^

My family has a fairly rich history with regards to the Confederacy. I'm related to several individuals who fought against the north, and am a direct male descendent of a Captain in the SC State Militia, who was captured a month before the war ended, and was held for six months after since he wouldn't take an oath of allegiance to the US. So perhaps Imm a little biased when I say that I have no problem with people flying or displaying it. Freedom of expression, and what not.

Nurvana
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Nurvana
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What comes to your mind when you see the Rebel flag / Southern Cross / Southern Battle flag or some image representing/incorporating it?


The Civil War. The Confederacy. Slavery. Anyone who says differently is either living under a rock or lying. The flag itself? Nothing wrong with it. It was part of Mississippi's state flag before it was a rallying symbol for such a cause as slavery. However, the two-toothed rednecks flying it from their car and hanging it outside their houses, as some sort of nose-thumbing directed at anyone who cares, is what keeps the flag relevant enough to be discussed. But at the end of the day it's rather inconsequential. There are people where I live legitimately trying to rally the southern people to rise up against "Obama" because the "government is shut down". Anything that people that stupid do is of little concern to others, I think.
Sonatavarius
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well I see a lot of people claiming that all they see is hate and slavery and that they feel really sorry for the black people who have to drive down the road with their children with the flag of the country who fought to keep them slaves flying like a slap in the face right in plain view.

I'm from Mississippi and I've shown what our flag looks like. We've had multiple episodes of different peoples trying to get us to discontinue its use over the last few years. I am also a blond caucasian male. I didn't grow up with slavery and for the longest time I didn't even really grasp what it was. When I look at the flag that is flying I don't see all of those horrible things. I see a flag that represents a people that in spite of being first in the worst and last in the best continues to raise the bar for the rest of the country and even the world. We regularly produce amazing musicians, writers, actors, sports players, scientists, and further medical research/practices. These are all things that you would think should come from places like John Hopkins, Harvard, California, or New York (and they do!...but we've got more than our fair share of awesome coming out). Elvis, Opra, Morgan Freeman, John Grisham, Jimmy Buffet, the first heart and lung transplants (performed in Mississippi or by the same University of Mississippi Medical Center surgeon in another state), the curing (at least temporarily but hopefully permanently) of a recent AIDS baby was led (or co-led) by a UMMC physician, and too many more to list. When I see the flag I see these things... I don't see the things a bunch of stupid old people who didn't know any better (and rumor has it a lot of them did and that the war may not have been fought over slavery so much as it was for "you can't tell me what to do&quot... I feel that if people are going to be proud in anything than southerners have more than enough reason to be proud of their area and celebrate "Southern Pride!"... don't get me wrong, I haven't forgotten that those ancient bad things happened. I just find it silly to dwell on all of these negatives when these same people will refuse to admit that Old Glory has cast its shadow on its own share of gruesome unsavory events. If you piled the bodies and ash left over from the bodies no longer existing high and compared the two parties.... my money is on the fact that you would see Old Glory's pile dwarfing the other by a huge margin. (we're talking deaths of innocents and such as that) With righteous great people like these, who needs racist slave owning enemies? ...and if you don't share that opinion, then lets change it a tad. If you were to compare the body piles of white on black hate crime + slavery with and that of black on black crime + murder you'd have to wonder... if a single black child were to be placed in a giant coliseum with nothing but white Mississippians vs the same environment but with black Chicagoans, under which scenario would that kid be statistically safer? I think some people are too worried with the superficial things that have no real influence on their life and worry too little about the real problems of today that are glaring them in their faces.

sorry... I like to ramble. You've caught me during a lull in med school and I've got nowhere else to use as an outlet for all of my normal study energy, so here I am!

Sonatavarius
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well... to be fair to us rednecks... The most homosexual liberal people I personally know also loathe Obama and fill my facebook feed with anti-obama/anti-obamacare posts and comments. I'm not so sure it's just solely a redneck thing.

KnightDeclan
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I love the confederate flag because it represents pride. They were forced into the union. I feel like we should still be separate, it'd also make sports pretty epic. I'm from the north, but I do respect the south more than the north.

Freakenstein
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I feel like we should still be separate


I also think so, but only so they take their massive debt with them
Sonatavarius
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I think that prior to that little ordeal the south may have been the one paying off the north's debt... and may have been what spurred the little ordeal more than slavery.... but you can't really know things like that for fact since the winner writes the history books

Maverick4
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Pre-Industrial Revolution, the South was the richest region, particularly Virginia and South Carolina. These states actually opposed forming a nation after the Revolutionary War so that they wouldn't have to pay off everyone else's war debt - since they had already paid off their own. Tobacco, and later cotton, were very much the contributing factor to this. The traditional Confederacy doesn't seem any differnt from the rest of the nation with regards to debt, short of a few outliars like Conneticut, New Jersey, and Rhode Island.

shortstopkid123
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its a buyer beware kind of thing. Its most definitely controversial, but one should be allowed to display it, even though certain individuals may dislike it (including myself)

Sonatavarius
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I don't mind that people dislike it... I just get aggravated when they state their reasons for disliking it, and those reasons come across as hypocritical. I'm pretty sure it was the American flag that was flying over slave ships, and I'm pretty sure the American flag has rested its shadow over a lot worse than the one receiving all of the hate ever did. You might could say that the American flag has flown over a lot more with regard to the positive and good things... but I still say that if you piled the bodies and ash of all the innocent people our country has killed over the years the Southern Cross would look like an ant hill with regard to the mountain Old Glory has piled high. ....and I don't think I need to touch on how people need to worry more about the black on black than they do the white on black crimes again.

We as a people seem to be more worried about meaningless superficial things than we do those that are a little harder to see and a lot more pertinent to reaching a better tomorrow.... It's almost as if people are more concerned about an unsightly hair than they are the treatable/curable colon cancer that's slowly killing them.

rychus
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I'm pretty sure it was the American flag that was flying over slave ships, and I'm pretty sure the American flag has rested its shadow over a lot worse than the one receiving all of the hate ever did.


It doesn't matter where the flag flew, its what it represents. When I see that flag, I think of people fighting to keep slavery, and a bloody war. The rednecks that said they were "flying the flag for there ancestors" are finding a legitimate reason to fly the flag, but it is really the reason why they have it flying?
Maverick4
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The rednecks that said they were "flying the flag for there ancestors" are finding a legitimate reason to fly the flag, but it is really the reason why they have it flying?


...

I was just about to comment on the lack of "hurr durr dum sudner rednek" but oh well.
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