ForumsWEPRGender Identity

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pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,991 posts
Scribe

I feel like there should be a thread about such a topic, and now there is one.

What are your thoughts on Gender Identity?
[Note: Gender =/= sex]

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Avorne
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Avorne
3,103 posts
Shepherd

I think there are too many people that conflate 'not conforming to all the socially constructed ideas about how you should act if you're a certain gender' and 'being transgendered'.

A lot of people like to be special snowflakes and it's kind of sad seeing them misappropriate legitimate struggles so they can call themselves transgendered despite experiencing no gender dysphoria whatsoever.

Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
1,387 posts
Jester

Ok this is an interesting topic. But what do you mean by gender identity? Do you mean how a gender is identified by its attributes or what identities you assume when you are born to a gender?

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,991 posts
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But what do you mean by gender identity? Do you mean how a gender is identified by its attributes or what identities you assume when you are born to a gender?


Gender Identity..how a person identifies themselves. Do they identify as a female, male, trans, agender, etc.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,324 posts
Blacksmith

It's a difficult topic to describe. I'll take a quick stab at an explanation and opinion... People seem to have an endogenous stereotype/opinion of what it means to be of any particular gender and how the supposed types of people in question are to act, think, interact, and be. It is my opinion that fleshing out labels of gender beyond the sexual hardware definition just makes things unnecessarily convoluted, and it serves to de-streamline the nomenclature at the interpersonal level. Sticking with the "I have _____ hardware downstairs, and I am whoever the f I wanna be regardless of it" just seems make things so much simpler... the alternative says "I have XX female genitalia, but I'm a man!"... The problem I have with that is that people don't agree on what it means to be a "man" (or the alternatives) as far as mental states are concerned ... You can name just about any mental/personality trait that doesn't inherently exclude being a woman and I can find women with those male traits who claim to be women... and vice versa.

If you're not happy with what nature dealt you, then go get a job that will pay for your reassignment surgery, OR come to terms with the fact that your problem only exists in your head and that you can in that context be whatever you want to be.

I try to view people on a person to person basis and try not to inherently bias myself based on their supposed mental gender. I couldn't care less about what you think you are... unless it's going to impact your health and I'm the one having to bring you back to health. More often than not, the more important thing is the sexual gender of the person. It dictates (ha!) more about the person and their health and how their healthcare should be pursued under normal circumstances.

One last thing. Gender = Sex and Gender =//= Sex. The world doesn't transition to using exclusively your definition just because it has become more popular in your like-minded group of people in recent times. It is still present in dictionaries, and it is the context of its usage that denotes how it is to be interpreted. I see lots of people stating that it is solely mental status like the world has been blinded to its ways for the last forever for using the word wrong. (It is YOU who has been blinded!!) AND if you'd still like to argue it, then I would say that gender should exclusively mean the sex of the person while GENDER IDENTITY should entail all of the mental garbage dealing with how people feel the different sexes should be psychologically, socially, and physically stereotyped and then how they see themselves under those views.

Minotaur55
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Minotaur55
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Jester

Gender Identity..how a person identifies themselves. Do they identify as a female, male, trans, agender, etc.


I'd assume they would identify themselves as what who they know they are. I wouldn't call myself a female for I don't share the physical or innate attributes nor are one. I am male. Always have been, always will be.

In the case of being a Hermaphrodite I'd say that depends on how you feel. They have a choice to be who they want to be. And in that, they can chose an identity. But who they are is a Hermaphrodite, a class or gender all its own.
metalplastic
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metalplastic
191 posts
Peasant

Well, people always (or seem to) have an identity crisis at some point of their life...I think...although that identity crisis doesn't always seem to be about gender identity but nonetheless it's sometimes the identity that's opposite their actual gender. I got nothing against that though, but sometimes those people are just too proud or too liberate that they feel they can do whatever they want, by that I really mean WHATEVER THEY WANT...that includes going above the law at some point. Another problem I have are those gender stereotypes, "Oh you're a woman you should be like this" or "Oh you're a man you should be like this", to a certain degree it's fine like a women wear feminine clothes and men wear masculine clothes...some other stuff can go either way I think...

chrystalfox
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chrystalfox
20 posts
Peasant

A lot of people like to be special snowflakes and it's kind of sad seeing them misappropriate legitimate struggles so they can call themselves transgendered despite experiencing no gender dysphoria whatsoever.
I just wanted to say this bit, and then get on with the topic. Not everyone who is misgendered (i.e. they were born in the wrong body) feels gender dysphoria. They accept the fact that they were born in the wrong body and cannot fight it. And even people who do experience it don't experience it all the time. It's just something that sometimes happens.

Another thing is that I don't think we should forget the parents of TG teens. For the most part, they have no idea what's going on, and are scared for their kids. I remember when I came out to my parents. My mom wanted to ignore it and let me live my own life, thank (insert deity here), but my dad was totally not okay with it. He said he didn't raise a son, and that I might as well be dead to him.

My point is that this affects everyone in your life, whether you knew it would or not. And those changes can be scary.
chrystalfox
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chrystalfox
20 posts
Peasant

Sorry for double posting, I just wanted to point out that I ment to say "my dad said he didn't raise a daughter. Thank you

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,991 posts
Scribe

Now that this is back..I do want to correct my OP. I recognize gender does equate sex, and what I was talking about was gender identity. My mistake.

Riptizoid101
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Riptizoid101
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Blacksmith

Another problem I have are those gender stereotypes, "Oh you're a woman you should be like this" or "Oh you're a man you should be like this", to a certain degree it's fine like a women wear feminine clothes and men wear masculine clothes...some other stuff can go either way I think...


Sure there are always exceptions to the usual "Oh, I'm a man and I drive a truck, eat BBQ every Sunday, tough, loves football..." etc and "Oh, I'm a woman and I'm a good caregiver, emotional, submissive, verbal..." etc.

Really, when you're in the perspective of somebody that relates him or herself with a particular gender, it's mostly the attributes that appeal to the person that society has painted over with a thousand coats. You can't deny that, at least in the USA, the general populace of men and women pretty much fit the mold of the stereotype, though there are exceptions here and there. And of course, the sexual gender barrier is being breached, with more women paving the way to grab "blue collar" jobs and men donning pink collar jobs. But just the fact that pink collar jobs were once called "women's work" is a testimony to itself of how sexist the world is and was, and how it socially conditioned us to believe all this nonsense about masculinity and femininity.

And because both of these exist... it's not that strange to see so many are identifying themselves with a gender. They're just affiliating themselves with what they think they are based on society.
Devoidless
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Devoidless
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The topic about gender identity is quickly transforming into a discussion about gender roles. While the two maybe be related in some capacity, I don't see them being able to co-exist at the current rate of discussion in this thread.

Can we try to refocus on gender identity?

MoonFairy
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MoonFairy
3,391 posts
Farmer

Gender Identity. My opinion on it is that I think people shouldn't really.... care?

I don't mean that people should just ignore the person's wishes to be identified as a specific gender, but I think that other people's opinion on how someone wants to be identified is audacious. If someone feels like being called she/her rather than he/him and vice versa then that's up to them.

But.

I find it to be frustrating to meet someone who identifies as a female, but looks just like every other normal guy on the street. I hate being offensive and calling them by the wrong thing, but if anyone chooses to identify themselves with a particular gender, I feel that maybe a smidgen of effort should go into altering their physical appearance to correspond with their decision.

I'm not saying that all Transgender people do this, but I have met a few too many TG folks who have put no effort into changing their looks, but get HIGHLY offended when you call them the wrong thing.

Anyways. That's my two cents on the subject.

Pazx
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Pazx
5,871 posts
Shepherd

I think there are too many people that conflate 'not conforming to all the socially constructed ideas about how you should act if you're a certain gender' and 'being transgendered'.


"Transgendered" can be offensive. The correct term is transgender.

As inconsiderate as this sounds, I do feel like a lot of people identify as trans or agender simply because it's what's in. A trans friend of mine used the term transtrending. Seeing people post about dysphoria when they don't have it is disgusting, but it's not my place to determine who is genuine, and I know plenty of people who genuinely experience horrible dysphoria.

It's also kinda interesting to me that I've never met a hetero trans person.

I find it to be frustrating to meet someone who identifies as a female, but looks just like every other normal guy on the street. I hate being offensive and calling them by the wrong thing, but if anyone chooses to identify themselves with a particular gender, I feel that maybe a smidgen of effort should go into altering their physical appearance to correspond with their decision.

I'm not saying that all Transgender people do this, but I have met a few too many TG folks who have put no effort into changing their looks, but get HIGHLY offended when you call them the wrong thing.


If they get offended instead of trying to correct you the first time you unintentionally misgender you, that's bad of them but you can understand them getting frustrated. However, they are not obliged to present themselves in any particular way whatsoever, and if they want to look like a "normal guy" as you so eloquently put it then they shall. Expecting somebody to "alter their physical appearance" for your own personal convenience is disgusting.

Slightly unrelated but if someone could inform me about intersex individuals and hermaphrodites (also whether that term is still acceptable and whether it's a slur or not) that would be great.
MoonFairy
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MoonFairy
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Farmer

If they get offended instead of trying to correct you the first time you unintentionally misgender you, that's bad of them but you can understand them getting frustrated. However, they are not obliged to present themselves in any particular way whatsoever, and if they want to look like a "normal guy" as you so eloquently put it then they shall. Expecting somebody to "alter their physical appearance" for your own personal convenience is disgusting.

Please tell me where I said that I expected them to alter their physical appearance for my person convenience. I do believe I said " I feel that maybe a smidgen of effort...", and I don't think that constitutes as me expecting them to change everything just so I can call them by the right name. I don't jump down their throats when they get mad at me, I simply apologize for the misunderstanding and fix it.

But thank you for pointing out that I said "normal guy". I can see where that can be offensive and I do apologize.
Stormslice
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Stormslice
42 posts
Peasant

I'm male and will always be, ok? I DO drive a truck, DO eat BBQ, and DO have big weapons that I like to use once in a while. I would like to meet a woman someday that wants to fit into the role that is passed out in the Bible as well. I fit very well into the mold that the BIBLE (and therefore God) created of caregiver, provider, and protector, so I want someone who will fit into the role of loving, respecting wife. Life is much simpler this way and I like simple.
I'm a hard-core Christian and I hold by the values that the forefathers of the United States had (which can be found in the Bible), not the values of the people in the country today. From what I can see, the country has been a one-man-one-woman country until recent years. Personally, I wish it had stayed that way.

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