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Public Schools

Posted Oct 11, '13 at 3:57pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

4,299 posts

Alright I sat down and watched the video. I generally don't like to talk about a broad topic off the basis of a single video because it feels restraining, but I'd rather not continue posting here if I'm going to get nonsensical responses "like so freakin typical" when I gave a perfectly rational reason for not watching.

Something I can personally back up. Especially for math. I hate not knowing why we use a certain formula or why it works. I hated my high school math, because they would teach the formula, when to use it, and then move on.


How far did you get? Trigonometry? Most advanced math classes will require you to be able to prove formulas and explain when to use them. I didn't have to do this until I got to Calc I, and even then it was a little transparent.

The main reason why (how I see it), is because it's hard for them to explain formulas without the students having a very good basis in math. By the time you get to trig, you'd probably say you're comfortable with most math. Thing is, when you start proving something you use in trig, you generally need to know a little bit about calculus. Here's the kicker: The stuff you do in calculus requires trig. So, more often than not, you're going to take a few classes and not understand any of the formulas, but later on you'll understand them.

As I've stated, it is destructive towards our creative side of our mind.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. AP Psych was a wonderful class. The great thing about it was we discussed how structure and logic favors the left side of the brain and is usually more prominent within school. You start out in first period, go to second, then to third, and so on. The times are the same throughout the day. Tests are processed the same. So on and so forth. That's big in both public and private school.

My question is, how can homeschooling help with that? In theory, you'd think that homeschooling would allow for more creativity and other right brain elements. But when I lived at home, I had a set schedule of when to do chores, when to get up, when to go for my daily run, when to do my homework, etc. Wouldn't a tutor or a parent set this up the same way? In many ways, we live at home just as we do at school.

at first i agreed then i thought for a sec and i think its actually better for teachers of one religion to teach another one. you might be catholic so you wont get what im saying but if you had a catholic teacher he would teach that class as facts. while an atheist or any other religious person would probably teach it in an objective logical way. that will often give you more understanding on the subject and will not combine your personal opinions and feelings into it.


Yeah, I agree. I go to a Catholic college and I'm taking two religion classes: a comparative religious studies class and a class on Catholicism. The Catholicism professor is a Catholic and he teaches the class as if he's using facts, while the religious studies professors teaches like it's a history class. I personally find the comparative class a lot more interesting because I can actually think, while in the Catholicism class I sit and listen to tidbits of information that I have to record and recall on tests.

---

I have cousins who have extremely religious parents and they're homeschooled. Frankly, when I come over and visit them, it does seem like they're brainwashed. They don't watch television, they don't play video games, they don't have computers, phones, or any other types of electronic devices. They spend their days cleaning, reading the Bible, and going for long bike rides. That's all fine and dandy, really, because they seem happy. The main issue is that I don't know how they're going to function in the real world. They can't completely isolate themselves without some exposure to society, and when that happens they're going to be shocked. Where are they going to work? To live? Are they going to become priests? Can they become priests?

I have an aunt who teaches a private school. The school caters to the smaller denominations of Christianity. They don't enroll Catholics, Lutherans, or Methodists. Considering that, you'd think it's a pretty small school but it's actual big. The total amount of students is about 3000. The students usually have 2 or 3 classes on religion, a class on math, a class on religious literature (they don't read ANYTHING contemporary), a music class, and a science class minus evolution. So they usually have 6 or 7 classes, which is about the average class load of a public school student.

I went to public schools all my life and I think I turned out okay. Helped desensitize to the real world.
 

Posted Oct 11, '13 at 4:12pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,700 posts

How far did you get? Trigonometry?


Calc I

I didn't do well, but at least I was understanding the formulas and not flailing around with my head chopped off like my classmates.

[Should be noted: I didn't do well because I stayed like 5 chapters back to make sure I actually understand the ****.]
 

Posted Oct 11, '13 at 6:28pm

shortstopkid123

shortstopkid123

20 posts

This is related, I actually wrote an essay about something like this not too long ago

Why is Americaâs Education Failing?

The United States is often referred to as the best country in the world in many areas. It may be, but far from it in education. Out of a total of thirty-four countries of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, it ranks just fourteenth in reading, seventeenth in science and twenty-fifth in math (Walker). Despite America's status as a country, America's education is failing because of the large emphasis on standardized education, and the flaws of the students, parents, and teachers. How to fix the education system remains to be a problem.
Impoverished children are partially at fault for the failing education system in America. Poor children are ranked well below the national average among the group of fifteen year olds tested in the PISA, or the Program for International Student Assessment. Schools with less than ten percent of students on free or reduced lunch, had scores at an average of 551. Schools with more than seventy-five percent scored just 446 on average, well below the American average of 500. Results were consistent to show that low-income levels led to lower scores (Riddle). âChildren raised in low-income families are at risk for academic and social problems as well as poor health and well-being, which can in turn undermine educational achievementâ (Engle and Black, 2). Students who do not speak English also fall under a similar category of poor children. A lack of understanding in the primary language spoken in the United States will prevent a child from fully understanding the topics taught in school. Children who do not predominantly speak English are usually less affluent than those who do. The statistics are clear to show that underprivileged students are more likely to score lower.
Long lectures are a nightmare for any student. They are long, boring, and little knowledge is gained. They are an ineffective way to educate students. Students only spend ten to eighteen minutes of peak focus before zoning out. The remainder of class is wasted, with a childâs mind wandering somewhere else. A study conducted by two Indiana University professors in 1985 put students through a twenty minute presentation, and would have to recall the facts at the end. Logically, most people would believe that they would remember the most recent information the best. However, students remembered the beginning of the presentation the greatest. They also noted that most students lost attention by fifteen minutes anyhow (Khan). Based on this study, a student could be lectured for one hour, but only actively present for about a quarter of it.
Parents have a very large impact on a childâs education, which leads people to blame the parents for an inadequate education system. The MetLife Study of an American Teacher says, âParents report that schools with high parent engagement perform better on a range of measuresâ (6). It can pressure a student to do well and meet parent expectations. Unfortunately, parent involvement has declined. The same study concludes:
There are significant declines in the percentages of teachers and parents reporting that most or many parents take too little interest in their childrenâs education, fail to motivate their children, or leave their children alone too much after school (6).
Without parents emphasizing education, a student is less likely to excel in his studies. It can lead to students who do not greatly concern themselves in their education. The outcome will most likely lead to lower grades.
An effective teacher can make all the difference for a pupil. The teacher can be the reason for the success or the failure of his students. If a poor teacher was replaced with an average teacher, a single classroomâs lifetime earnings would be raised by an estimated 266,000 dollars (Birch). Professor Friedman says, âIf you leave a low value-added teacher in your school for 10 years, rather than replacing him with an average teacher, you are hypothetically talking about $2.5 million in lost income.â Schools need good teachers, but firing unqualified teachers has proved to be a difficult task.
Too many teachers lack the ability to educate their students, and prepare them for the future, and too few of these ineffective teachers are losing their jobs. Firing an incompetent teacher requires getting the union, the school board, the principal, and the judicial system involved, followed by thousands of dollars in legal fees. It is seldom that a teacher is ever fired. One California school spent eight thousand dollars to fire one teacher protected by tenure (Stephey). The trouble that schools must go through to fire an inept teacher deters schools from firing the teacher. The teacher will keep his job, and continue to poorly educate students and prepare them for the future.
In 2002, the No Child Left Behind (NCLB ) act was passed, a government program that required states to regularly give out state-run tests. Children are put through many of these each year. After the law was passed, the United States fell from eighteenth to thirty-first place in the math section of the PISA (CON Standardized Tests). The No Child Left Behind act created a system of teaching to the test. Much time is taken out to do the tests and prepare for them. Forty-four percent of schools have an average of 145 minutes a week taken out of class to prepare for standardized tests (âStandardized Exams Encourage Educational Equalityâ).
Another result from teaching to the test caused a decline of creative thinking. A 2007, five year University of Maryland study found:
â¦.the pressure teachers were feeling to 'teach to the test' since NCLB was leading to declines in teaching higher-order thinking, in the amount of time spent on complex assignments, and in the actual amount of high cognitive content in the curriculum (CON Standardized Tests).
Standardized tests reduce the ability to complete more complicated coursework, and students can only complete basic problems. It creates a right and a wrong system, where studentsâ creative thinking is abridged, and creating multiple solutions to a problem is difficult (Meador). The Torrance Test of Creative Thinking has fallen since 1990. Researcher Kyung-Hee Kim from the College of William & Mary faults it partly on the growth in standardized testing. He says, "If we neglect creative students in school because of the structure and the testing movement... then they become underachieversâ (CON Standardized Tests). Underachievers will not reach their full potential and their grades will not be as high as possible.
Standardized education continues to hold America back, but the students, parents, and teachers are at most responsible for the failing education system. Standardized education limits a childâs potential and ability, while attempting to bring everyone to the same level. The amount improvement is trivial, but the government continues to spend more on it. Students need to put more effort into their studies, but certain factors like economic can affect their performance. Parent involvement is critical to a studentâs success but is missing in many families. Inadequate teachers can limit a child in that particular subject, and hurt him in the future. In the future, changes will have to be made, or America may fall behind in other fields than education.

 

Posted Oct 13, '13 at 2:49pm

KnightDeclan

KnightDeclan

487 posts

I have cousins who have extremely religious parents and they're homeschooled. Frankly, when I come over and visit them, it does seem like they're brainwashed. They don't watch television, they don't play video games, they don't have computers, phones, or any other types of electronic devices. They spend their days cleaning, reading the Bible, and going for long bike rides. That's all fine and dandy, really, because they seem happy. The main issue is that I don't know how they're going to function in the real world. They can't completely isolate themselves without some exposure to society, and when that happens they're going to be shocked. Where are they going to work? To live? Are they going to become priests? Can they become priests?


Very true, some homeschooler parents don't prepare the children for a successful future.
 

Posted Oct 13, '13 at 3:31pm

caiteyd13

caiteyd13

41 posts

The only problem I have with home schooling is it limits the amount of interaction with other people. Yes they can participate in town sports and meet plenty of people in other social places but I feel they are limited in their ability to work with other people. I feel like their social interaction level is much lower than that of publicly schooled kids.

 

Posted Oct 13, '13 at 3:39pm

thebluerabbit

thebluerabbit

5,378 posts

Very true, some homeschooler parents don't prepare the children for a successful future.


id say most if not all. even a person who you completely agree with would have flaws in their education. children get their education from experience and many other people in their surrounding effects them. since we all have a different opinions its pretty much impossible for someone to give the perfect education for someone. in the end, you might have the right to choose how to educate their children but they are more then clay.

i dont think children should be replicas of their parents. they should be able to get the info from all kinds of people and then develop their own identity. i personally find homeschooling very "dangerous" from that point of view because even a person who would use methods i agree with just wont be enough.

school makes you face with society and thats very important. a person raised by so few people probably will not have an open mind to actually doubt the people who raised him.
 

Posted Oct 17, '13 at 11:16am

09philj

09philj

1,769 posts

Britain's education is going down the tubes too. Just type "Michael Gove" into Google to get an idea of the idiocy students and teachers have to deal with.

 

Posted Oct 17, '13 at 4:28pm

SSTG

SSTG

11,342 posts

Knight

Everybody forgot to mention that drugs and alcohol are also a huge factor.
Peer pressure makes it harder for teens to not use drugs or drink.
Many of them are already alcoholic and drug addict by the time they reach 15 yo.

 

Posted Oct 18, '13 at 11:03am

09philj

09philj

1,769 posts

Everybody forgot to mention that drugs and alcohol are also a huge factor.
Peer pressure makes it harder for teens to not use drugs or drink.
Many of them are already alcoholic and drug addict by the time they reach 15 yo.


Not to mention teenage pregnancy.
 
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