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-THE- PATRIARCHY!!...and how it doesn't exist

Posted Nov 15, '13 at 6:05pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,734 posts

.I'm more arguing against the more radical feminists viewpoint of this idea, in which it goes from the plausible idea that I actually agree with, to a movement that seems to take on a conscious body.


Welcome to the modern feminist movement, which is closer to a supremacist conspiracy theory than anything else. Most everyone interested in equal rights jumped that boat looooooooong ago, except for the people who are under the delusion that the platform hasn't been hijacked by radicals.

Ummm...yes.


How so?
 

Posted Nov 15, '13 at 6:28pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

The problem with feminism is that it stereotypes men, victimizes women who aren't really victims, and demonizes men who aren't really doing anything wrong.

For example, there was the one feminist who talked about how video games are patriarchal, and how they portray women in a negative light. She talked about how men always want to save women, because being saved somehow makes you an "object" rather than a "person". This kind of **** needs to die.

Someone on here posted a study in which a feminist conducted a study trying to prove that both men and women view women as objects and men as people. I won't go into more detail unless that redicilous study is brought up again though.

"Seeing as how feminine traits are viewed as weak and inferior compared to masculine traits, its hardly surprising that women are underrepresented in not only political office, but ALL positions of power. Women aren't "supposed" to be competitive, aggressive, or forward with their thoughts. Those are actions reserved for men."

There are people who think this way, but society as a whole does not operate in such a manner - at least not in places such as America and Europe. Most of the higher paid positions of the company I work for are filled by women. I've worked for more female managers than I have male managers. Maybe it's through coincidence I've almost always worked for women, but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of women in management positions from what I can see.

Not to mention that whenever a woman is attempting to elevate herself in society, her looks are commented on just as much (if not more) than what she brings to the table. Look at Sarah Palin's vice principle run for evidence. Sooooo many comments were made about her physical appearance. Similarly, Hillary Clinton was widely criticized for being unlikeable due to her acting outside of the stereotypical nurturing character we as a society expect of women.


Men are constantly bringing new things to the table, but hardly anyone ever recognizes their good looks. Their physique is constantly ignored and they're nothing more than tools. Women are both recognized for what they bring to the table AND their looks! They aren't only valued for what they do, but for who they are! HIllary Clinton shares similar views to many men, yet people want to vote for her because she's a woman. They assume she's worked harder than the men around her because she's a woman.

It's easy to shine a new light on stage.

There are a lot of problems women have to put up with, and people underestimating their abilities is one of them. But both men and women suffer from stereotypes - it isn't just women. The problem with feminism is that it fails to recognize this. The feminist movement attacks men as if men do not suffer from sexism or other sexual biases.

There are many issues in America in which both genders are treated unfairly - and both issues should be addressed. Both the feminist movement and the Men's Rights Movement are filled with sexist pigs who only focus on problems their own genders have while blaming the other gender instead of simply blaming the sexist groups themselves.

We all hear the rape statistics in which approximately 1 in 4 to 1 in 11 women are raped and/or sexually abused. These numbers are very important, but they don't portray how many men are rapists, attempted rapists, or sexual offenders. However, many people wrongfully assume a large majority of men rape, attempt rape, or sexually abuse women due to these figured. They don't consider the idea that it's a small number of men committing the large number of these cases.

I apologize for any confusion I may be creating. I do not mean to come off as anti-feminist..as I am one myself (in so far as I am for MRA. AKA more just equal rights activist) and hate whenever this idea of Patriarchy is given more power than it should hold.


Ever since I was blocked and slandered by that sexist piece of ****, PineGrove, on YouTube, I've been anti-MRA.

There are many intelligent, unbiased, people who belong to both the feminist and MRA movements. However, both these movements are infested with sexist ******** who pretty much give the entire movement a bad name. It's hard to call one's self a feminist or MRA because you're going to automatically be associated with the radicals. And, in a way, it's all the more reason to abandon such titles. They've been tainted.
 

Posted Nov 16, '13 at 4:02am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,700 posts

Really? See:
**** Shaming
Victim Blaming
Intersectionality
The definition of patriarchy


This was actually completely my fault...and I apologize. How I meant to word my question was "Is there any evidence for 'The Patriarchy' actually existing?"

I have to apologize again for my action taken amongst this thread..I've been dealing with a lot of debates involving the radical feminists...and in short it has really tampered with my thinking towards this patriarchal idea.
I do understand we live in a society that is patriarchal to some means..however it is the phrase "The Patriarchy" that I have major qualms with. It's a complete misnomer..as it implies a conscious and active body working about the system.

except for the people who are under the delusion that the platform hasn't been hijacked by radicals.


Yeah I was in a debate, more or less, with some of these people a couple of days ago...I got spammed with links to how "MRA is bull**** and wrong".

How so?


I'm going to create a thread on the topic, actually. To be short, when it comes to this idea I'm more along the lines of Libertarian.

The problem with feminism is that it stereotypes men, victimizes women who aren't really victims, and demonizes men who aren't really doing anything wrong.


Preach on, brother.
With the victimizes women who aren't really victims..I'll have to find the actual statistics on it..but most people say that 1 in 4 women are "sexually assaulted", when the actual figure is about 1 in ~80.

And speaking of demonizing men...
In the debate I mentioned previously...one of the people I was debating actually tried to discredit my entire argument on the grounds of my "Male Privilege", as if it a) Even mattered in the debate, and b) was something I should be ashamed of and was horrible for having.

The feminist movement attacks men as if men do not suffer from sexism or other sexual biases.


A radical feminist that I'm (sadly) friends with on The Facebook actually shared an article that satirized males that try to argue that men do suffer from sexism as well. I tried to speak up that it was a horribly misinformed article..and subsequently got attacked because of the "Male privileges" I mentioned earlier that I hold.

We all hear the rape statistics in which approximately 1 in 4 to 1 in 11 women are raped and/or sexually abused


Given that I already mentioned this..I'll give a brief explanation for why the stats have been staggered so much.
Essentially, it is because of all the false accusations that are made and charges that are made that are subsequently dropped...despite these facts being so the cases are still counted towards the statistics.

There are many intelligent, unbiased, people who belong to both the feminist and MRA movements. However, both these movements are infested with sexist ******** who pretty much give the entire movement a bad name. It's hard to call one's self a feminist or MRA because you're going to automatically be associated with the radicals. And, in a way, it's all the more reason to abandon such titles. They've been tainted.


That last line is something I actually say quite often. Each side has been obscured to focus on one sex more than the other, rather than focus on an equal statues.
 

Posted Nov 16, '13 at 4:34am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,700 posts

So in a hilariously ironic twist of fate...the radical feminist girl I was in a debate with...just shared a link on The Facebook that is subjecting men...sexy pics of em =O

 

Posted Nov 16, '13 at 9:10am

danielo

danielo

1,748 posts

Ill give you the smallest case to think about it:
In the high school i studied we have a student council.
Everytime there was a voting to the council president, if a male was on the list, he won. Every single time. And when it was all girls, the one that looked the best would have.

When a women try to go to the top she is suddenly a witch. A female dog. She is cold. And if she is not, she most be ****y. This is how most peoples think. Like it or not.
And these feminists tend to go to the opposite. Its like with Iran. When the revolution threw away the Shae, they did everything that he didnt wanted. He was pro America and Israel? They will hate them. He opend universities? They will make them islamists.

Its easier this way, as they can see who is "good" and who is "bad" with more ease. This way they can make themselves sure they are the correct side.

 

Posted Nov 16, '13 at 2:15pm

NoNameC68

NoNameC68

5,296 posts

Knight

Here's something I posted on Facebook a while back. These are actual arguments I've heard from both sides. Admittedly, the arguments from the MRA mostly come from the comments section of PineGrove's videos. (For those of you who don't know, PIneGrove is a sexist moron on YouTube who censors his channel due to his own lack of debating skills).

It's amazing how both sides hate each other so much, yet they come to oddly similar conclusions.

I understand that there are varying opinions within both the feminist movement and within the Men's Rights Movement. Therefore, I will be generalizing popular opinions of "radicals" from both ends.

On parenting:
Feminists - "Everyone stereotypes against women, claiming they should be the ones stuck at home taking care of the child. There is no reason why a father can't stay at home while the woman works."

MRM - "Everyone stereotypes against men, claiming women are better at raising children than men. There's nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home dad."

On porn:
Feminists - "Porn is degrading! It depicts women as nothing more than sex objects! Women should refrain from such acts and show the world that they aren't objects!"

MRM - "Men shouldn't watch porn! Women take advantage of men and their wallets by seducing them with their bodies! Men should resist temptation and show the world that they aren't tools!"

On manners:
Feminists - "Men always feel obliged to treat women special. They always offer to pay for the meal, or hold the door open for women. Women aren't helpless, they shouldn't be treated as such.

MRM - "Women always feel entitled to special treatment. They always expect men to pay for the meal, or to hold the door open for them. Men aren't slaves, they shouldn't serve women.

On The Opposing Group:
Feminists - "The Men's Right Movement is full of a bunch of sexist pigs who want to take away the rights of women!

MRM - "The Feminist Movement is full of a bunch of sexist dogs who want to take away the rights of men!"

You need to defend women's rights when laws discriminate against women.
You need to defend men's rights when laws discriminate against men.

You need to accept that some women don't want to be treated special.
You need to accept that some men don't want to treat women special.

You need to accept that some women are okay with having their meal payed for.
You need to accept that some men are perfectly fine paying the bill.

You need to accept that some men and women aren't guilty of watching porn or starring in porno.

You need to accept that some women do want to work outside, in the sun, breaking a sweat, while others want to avoid manual labor.
You need to accept that some men do want to stay at home with their kid as their wives pay the bills, while others don't mind the physical exhaustion.

Radical feminism and the MRM are bull****. And if you're a "casual" activist belonging to either one of these groups, then you may as well call yourself a humanitarian and fight tooth and nail for the rights of both men and women when the occasion arises!

Note: I understand that sexual oppression can be so great in some areas that a movement, dedicated to focusing on only the rights of a single gender (namely women), are necessary. When the level of oppression is completely one sided, worrying about the rights of a single gender becomes a full-time job. In America and Europe, feminism and masculinism is used to cherry pick situations in which the gender they represent are "oppressed".
 

Posted Nov 20, '13 at 4:52pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,700 posts

Great read

Discusses the inflation of rape statistics and the "one in four" myth.

 

Posted Nov 20, '13 at 10:02pm

samy

samy

5,043 posts

Better Read

Because one, one, story like this is cause enough to warrant dramatic shifts in policy.

I don't care if one woman out of one-hundred is raped, it's a massive issue and, morally, we must address it.

 

Posted Nov 20, '13 at 11:56pm

Nurvana

Nurvana

2,589 posts

samy you don't understand the point pang is trying to make. Besides severely discouraging me from going to amherst, all that article did was tell me rape is bad. Yeah, we all know that. That's not what the argument is. This isn't a thread about rape. But the study of how feminists use misleading and generalized questions to overstate the statistical magnitude of rape, resulting in the throwing of money at the problem without the actual analysis of it, lends to his attack of feminism and their view of the patriarchy. In fact, the article even talks about how rape isn't necessarily related to a patriarchal society. It was just a mechanic he was using to prove a point.

 

Posted Nov 20, '13 at 11:59pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,700 posts

Of course it's a massive issue, such as murder, torture, etc. The point of my article is not to say it shouldn't be addressed, but to admit that it isn't as frequent of a happening as it may seem.

It also shows that the idea of Patriarchy = rape culture, or the two being hand in hand, doesn't really match up...given that Japan, for instance, has far larger of a patriarchal society as ours, yet has staggering lower rape counts. This shows that it isn't patriarchal tendencies, but aggressive/violent ones.

Also, there is the scare of false accusations. 1 rape is 1 too many, and so is 1 false accusation.

 
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