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Politically..."correct"?

Posted Jan 3, '14 at 10:26pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,103 posts

Do you think "being politically correct" is really "correct"?

One aspect, race: it seems to have moments of illogical designation to the different kinds of people. African American, for example, is a misnomer, asserting that said person is of African descent but is of American upbringing or nationality. The person could just as easily be from the UK, or somewhere in mid-Asia.
Speaking of Asia, we have the designation of "Asian" for one of such ethnic background, and properly so. However, then comes the issue with one from India (one example. There is also the Middle East and Russia), a land within Asia. Now if you take the viewpoint of it being it's own landmass separate of that of the rest of Asia due to it's much more obvious differences amongst itself than the rest of the Asian cultures, then of course the idea of separating their designation becomes obvious. But then why just stop at India?
If we do not take such viewpoint, then why call those from India "Indians" instead of the "Asian" as we do for those that come from other parts of the continent...spare Middle East and most of Russia.

Also, it seems being "pc" seems to take the stance against joking about with other people of different groups due to the stigma behind certain jokes and/or joking manners. Why not allow people to understand that when one jokes, it is what it is at face value, a joke...and then allow the people to come together with mutual acceptance of one another with the freedom of these light-hearted jokes?

 

Posted Jan 3, '14 at 11:22pm

Pazx

Pazx

6,123 posts

Also, it seems being "pc" seems to take the stance against joking about with other people of different groups due to the stigma behind certain jokes and/or joking manners. Why not allow people to understand that when one jokes, it is what it is at face value, a joke...and then allow the people to come together with mutual acceptance of one another with the freedom of these light-hearted jokes?


This "why can't we all just get along and joke about it" attitude, "it" being racism, sexism, homophobia or any other inequality is terrible for a variety of reasons. I can't really tell because this is a forum with a sense of anonymity, but I'm going to assume you have privilege in some form, most likely being white, straight, cisgender or male (forgive me if I'm wrong). If somebody who isn't privileged in the same way as you calls you out for making a bigoted joke and you say "it's just a joke" you are silencing those who are fighting for equality. It can also hurt. Slurs were at one point charged with negativity and caused significant harm to many different groups which is why white people can't say the N word and straight people can't say "oh that's g**"

Why everybody shouldn't just be nice.
 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 1:08am

delossantosj

delossantosj

6,778 posts

i think that the idea of political correctness is something that humans made in our own ignorance. people shouldn't worry over such pointless things. I can't believe that there is a whole world out there to see and so much beauty and yet there are people in the world worried about whether they are politically correct. people should be focusing on more important issues in life if you ask me.

 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 4:12am

Pazx

Pazx

6,123 posts

people shouldn't worry over such pointless things


People shouldn't worry about whether they offend others?
 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 7:46am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,103 posts

This "why can't we all just get along and joke about it" attitude, "it" being racism, sexism, homophobia or any other inequality is terrible for a variety of reasons


I never mentioned any sort of jokes with hate or degradation attached to them.

but I'm going to assume you have privilege in some form


I fail to see what this has to do with anything. Bringing up one's "privilege" merely distracts from a point, and usually seems to have an implied argument that one's point is invalid because of something they have no control over.

If somebody who isn't privileged in the same way as you calls you out for making a bigoted joke and you say "it's just a joke"


I'd hardly say that would be my response. My response would have to then be a discussion about how making fun of one's stereotypes, in my form of humor, is to mock the idea of stereotypes to begin with. I do not connect any serious notion or belief behind them.

Slurs were at one point charged with negativity and caused significant harm to many different groups which is why white people can't say the N word and straight people can't say "oh that's g**"


Slurs are another matter, and exist across a wider range than what straight or white people can and cannot say.
As for "white people can't say the 'N' word", although I do not say it due to it's explicit background as an oppressive word, I do know of black people that actually tell their white friends they may say it (although if I was told to do so, I would refrain due to my own viewpoints), which is an interesting situation.

People shouldn't worry about whether they offend others?


âIt's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
-Stephen Fry

To be frank,one should have more of an argument than "I'm offended"
 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 9:07am

Pazx

Pazx

6,123 posts

I never mentioned any sort of jokes with hate or degradation attached to them.


You're right, I'll look at what I was referring to again:

it seems being "pc" seems to take the stance against joking about with other people of different groups


You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what being "politically correct" is about. I can joke around with POC about sports freely, I would be treading on eggshells if I were to make racial jokes with them because those jokes may exclude, marginalise or insult those people.

I fail to see what this has to do with anything. Bringing up one's "privilege" merely distracts from a point,


I didn't bring up your individual privilege because I know nothing about you, I suggested the different ways an individual can be privileged (I forgot lack of disability which is another common one) and how that affects what jokes they make and whether they're acceptable or not.

and usually seems to have an implied argument that one's point is invalid because of something they have no control over.


As a white male, a well informed POC female's word ultimately trumps mine on topics of sexism and racism. If she is striving for equality and I disagree with her I am silencing a minority, even if I'm trying to achieve equality myself.

I'd hardly say that would be my response. My response would have to then be a discussion about how making fun of one's stereotypes, in my form of humor, is to mock the idea of stereotypes to begin with.


There's a fine line between making fun of and reinforcing stereotypes. I'm not sure what these jokes would be in your case but either way I'm hopeful that if somebody said "hey, could you not make jokes about that" you'd respect their wishes.

Alternatively, you may be making someone uncomfortable with these jokes and they may not speak up, so it's best to avoid these jokes unless you're certain it's okay with the person in question.

I do not connect any serious notion or belief behind them.


Your intent is irrelevant in this situation.

As for "white people can't say the 'N' word", although I do not say it due to it's explicit background as an oppressive word, I do know of black people that actually tell their white friends they may say it (although if I was told to do so, I would refrain due to my own viewpoints), which is an interesting situation.


This is true, however if a black friend of yours said you can use the N word you can only use it around them the same way some LGBTQIA+ people wouldn't mind their friends saying "that's g**" to describe something ****ty around them. For a young boy who is unsure about his sexuality hearing things described negatively as g** can be extremely harmful.

To be frank,one should have more of an argument than "I'm offended"


This is true, and Stephen Fry is an intellectual man, so there's a reason that quote doesn't read
"lol idc if i'm racist"
-Stephen Fry

Being PC isn't about not offending others, it's about not marginalising or insulting disadvantaged groups. You can be PC and still be rude and offend people. If I say "I'm offended by X", then Stephen Fry is right. "Well, so ****ing what." If someone says "I'm offended by X because it is racist/sexist/ableist/homophobic/bigoted" (simply "that's racist" for example) or "as a member of a disadvantaged group, X offends me" then you better shut up and think about what you said because chances are they're right.
 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 10:31am

09philj

09philj

2,681 posts

However, the public hysteria over racism/homophobia/ageism/antisemetism/any kind of offence means that people who are well, wrong, can just claim that you are a bigot.

 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 1:42pm

SSTG

SSTG

12,561 posts

Knight

I think that political correctness is a clumsy way to fix the American ignorance toward other races as depicted in their movies (which is a reflection of their culture) from the 20's, up to the early 60's.
Even today, how many people will say "
"The cable or dish guy came to install my new DVR."
If the guy is black or Indian they'll say "The cable or dish guy came to install my DVR, he was black/Indian/Mexican, etc."

We can say that there has been some progress toward prejudices and racism but it is still there so political correctness is just putting a band aid on a broken arm.

 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 5:13pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,103 posts

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what being "politically correct" is about


Nope, that looks about right.

I can joke around with POC about sports freely, I would be treading on eggshells if I were to make racial jokes with them because those jokes may exclude, marginalise or insult those people.


The point isn't to joke with people that have a lesser "privilege" than me, but to be open with everyone.

Then there is something about Classical conditioning and desensitization that I'll either have to find something on or someone (specific person in mind, fyi) will have to come and explain it due to said person being able to explain it far better than I could. [Placing this here more as a reminder sort of deal]

and how that affects what jokes they make and whether they're acceptable or not.


Trying to understand what point you are trying to make here..

So, the less "privileged" you are, the more freedom you have at saying things about other groups?

As a white male, a well informed POC female's word ultimately trumps mine on topics of sexism and racism. If she is striving for equality and I disagree with her I am silencing a minority, even if I'm trying to achieve equality myself.


So Appeal to Authority?
I fail to see why my words should be trumped merely because they have a lesser "privilege". It seems to be an argument that to stop oppression, one group must be oppressed from their opinion and/or arguments.
Also, these seems to create an argument that essentially, whatever the minority states in regards to the topic of equality, goes. This, obviously, has inherent issues..

There's a fine line between making fun of and reinforcing stereotypes.


Of course, although joking about a stereotype, unless that joke has serious belief behind it, fails to cross the line.

I'm not sure what these jokes would be in your case but either way I'm hopeful that if somebody said "hey, could you not make jokes about that" you'd respect their wishes


Of course, although I would be interesting in understanding what about the joke makes them uncomfortable.

Your intent is irrelevant in this situation.


I fail to see how this is so.
For example: Capcom and their game Resident Evil 4.
They had no intent of hatred or bigotry behind the game. They were stupid, yes, but not racists.

"lol idc if i'm racist"


Nor would I expect it to be, and I fail to understand why it needs to be said that that isn't how his quote is read? Unless you are trying to state that is what the argument I'm presenting is..

then you better shut up and think about what you said because chances are they're right.


Key phrase here is "chances are". "I'm a part of x group and..." can be a weak stance for an argument.
"I'm black and blackface offends me" is a perfectly reasonable stance.
"I'm black and pointing out that Obama has an elite education is racist" is not.
{Quote for reference: Spotlighting his elite education is tantamount to racial bigotry because it insinuates that 'he took the place of someone else through affirmative action, that someone else being someone white. - jonathan capehart}
 

Posted Jan 4, '14 at 7:57pm

SSTG

SSTG

12,561 posts

Knight

Being PC often hurt people.
Take 2 students vying for a scholarship for example.
Student 1 is white and has better grades than student 2 who's Indian.
The college board is studying their files.
A member suggest that even though student 1 has better grades, they shouldn't give it to him because people might think their institution is racist so they reward student 2 with the scholarship.

What's wrong with this picture?

Now if there were no prejudices toward races, sexual preference, male vs female, skinny vs fat, short vs tall, who do you think would receive the scholarship?

Following my reasoning, political correctness is wrong.

 
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