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How can we fix Israel/Palestine?

Posted Jan 16, '14 at 10:56am

09philj

09philj

2,411 posts

This probably sounds insane, but what if a treaty was created forbidding any state owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party? It would give the Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy at least. Also, the opposing parties need to get a life, put aside their differences and show a willingness to negotiate, because frankly squabbling over the land little children makes outside observers less inclined to help.

 

Posted Jan 16, '14 at 11:04am

MacII

MacII

1,369 posts

How can we fix Israel/Palestine?


Not on this board, we won't.

In my never-so humble opinion.
 

Posted Jan 16, '14 at 4:36pm

thebluerabbit

thebluerabbit

5,372 posts

This probably sounds insane, but what if a treaty was created forbidding any state owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party? It would give the Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy at least.


would you want part of your country to be on control of another? i also doubt there really is a 100% nuetral country. besides, having a common enemy wont really solve things.

and the worst: i actually believe that if jerusalem was in control of another country there would be even more hatred to whom (used correctly) it should belong.

besides, i doubt jerusalem is the only thing the middle east is so messed up because isnt it? :P
 

Posted Jan 16, '14 at 4:41pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,289 posts

maybe all they need is a really good peace anthem.

 

Posted Jan 17, '14 at 10:59am

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,576 posts

Knight

This probably sounds insane, but what if a treaty was created forbidding any state owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party? It would give the Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy at least. Also, the opposing parties need to get a life, put aside their differences and show a willingness to negotiate, because frankly squabbling over the land little children makes outside observers less inclined to help.


I see multiple difficulties with this. The premise lies on the presumption that upon the control of Jerusalem by a neutral party, all other differences between the warring parties will cease. This is, logically, not going to happen.

Secondly, I would say, many of the groups, in particular the more zealous Jewish factions, and the more hardline Palestinian ones, would rather that observers leave. They don't want help from outside, other than aid and contributions. They want to wield their independence.

Thirdly, historically, they've tried creating internationally free cities, like Danzig, but they failed, for no other reason than the fact that such a city-state would find it hard to survive, especially if it was originally part of a larger state.
 

Posted Jan 18, '14 at 10:47am

09philj

09philj

2,411 posts

This probably sounds insane, but what if a treaty was created forbidding any state owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party


Did I write this rubbish? Sorry.

Question: why do the Israelis seem determined to paint themselves as villains to outsiders?
 

Posted Jan 18, '14 at 10:54am

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,576 posts

Knight

Question: why do the Israelis seem determined to paint themselves as villains to outsiders?


Well, I would blame the media mostly. There have always been oscillations in opinions; at the beginning, I would say that Israelis have had the most part of the sympathy, when they were a nascent state surrounded by hostile powers. Now, after 3 short, devastating knockout wars, they're no longer viewed as David, but Goliath, hence the volte face. We have to look at it from the Israeli point of view. They're still surrounded by larger neighbours, they have much sectarian violence within their state (Not to mention Syria now), and around them, and they have had a long history of persecution behind them. From their point of view, they're just doing what they deem best for their survival. Whether they look like villains or not, is down to the media.
 

Posted Jan 21, '14 at 1:25pm

tomertheking

tomertheking

1,795 posts

Not on this board, we won't.

In my never-so humble opinion.


I personally think that there is no solution that both parties would agree to.

...owning an part of Jerusalem, and putting the whole thing under the control of a neutral party?


Been there, done that. The Palestinians didn't like it.

Also, the opposing parties need to get a life, put aside their differences and show a willingness to negotiate, because frankly squabbling over the land little children makes outside observers less inclined to help.


You talk like they haven't

Question: why do the Israelis seem determined to paint themselves as villains to outsiders?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_Recognition.svg

This is an image of countries that do not recognize Israel as a state. You can imagine the amount of friendly feelings they have toward the country. Also, here is the list of countries that have been at war with Israel:
Egypt
Syria
Jordan
Lebanon
Saudi Arabia
Iraq
Yemen
Pakistan
Sudan
Soviet Union
Algeria
Kuwait
Libya
Morocco
Pakistan
Tunisia
Algeria
Cuba
Morocco
North Korea
Of this list, only two have signed peace agreements. (and the Soviet union has since broken up) That still leaves with a ****load of countries trying to kill you.

The truth is that Israel fears war like the Devil, will do anything to stop it, and that includes some things that you would disagree with. If you have ideas how not to do it and still survive, you are welcome to state them.

Well, I would blame the media mostly. There have always been oscillations in opinions; at the beginning, I would say that Israelis have had the most part of the sympathy, when they were a nascent state surrounded by hostile powers. Now, after 3 short, devastating knockout wars, they're no longer viewed as David, but Goliath, hence the volte face. We have to look at it from the Israeli point of view. They're still surrounded by larger neighbours, they have much sectarian violence within their state (Not to mention Syria now), and around them, and they have had a long history of persecution behind them. From their point of view, they're just doing what they deem best for their survival. Whether they look like villains or not, is down to the media.


Basically what I was trying to say.

Secondly, I would say, many of the groups, in particular the more zealous Jewish factions, and the more hardline Palestinian ones, would rather that observers leave. They don't want help from outside, other than aid and contributions. They want to wield their independence.


For Americans that broke away from an empire because it didn't want to pay taxes, many have difficulty grasping this idea.

The Palestinians are a poor people that got kicked out of every country they tied to get into and can't find a homeland where to live, and Israel is scared ****less of giving away the tiny strategic defense they have. No party can afford to give up the little it has to come to a two-state solution, and nobody wants a one-state solution either.
 

Posted Jan 21, '14 at 5:32pm

danielo

danielo

1,765 posts

Another big problme is the "arab two faces". One day its Abu-Mazen and his suited friends, the next its Hammas with AK on the shoulder and a kid on there back. Its like trying to negotiate a seasonal fashion.
Even so, I belive that if a steong enough Palestinian group will negotiate with Israel with rhe real intention to do so, we can do great things.

Another problme is that they dont let us trust them. Every day or two a member of their negotiation team threat to wirhdraw. Today another claim that the speaks will continue up to the 9 months they promissed.

What bother us Israelis the most is the fact that they show that they hate us yet negotiate. In Israel, if a minister willndare ro say something racist, he will get so much heat he will have to cool down for a while. Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence, They use Hitler in school books as a hero character.
Even a poster for eco day show kids clean and a big car with david star on it throw garbage. So if there will be peace, then with who it will be? A generation that belive we are the devil?

 

Posted Jan 22, '14 at 10:39am

09philj

09philj

2,411 posts

Things like this http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/11/1299874580764/Israeli-separation-wall-i-007.jpg and this don't help the image of the Israelis though.

 
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