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Evaluate the Supernatural

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 6:27pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

2,145 posts

Though that's not the claim. The claim is that the supernatural is real and that science can't evaluate it, which science can't. This would mean coming up with a means by which we can.


Well, science is the application of logic to observations, so if we've established that the claims can't be evaluated scientifically, it suggests that the supposed means of evaluation are unscientific and therefore illogical and/or not based on any real observations. While this may be enough for some highly credulous individuals, it is rather unsatisfying for a skeptic.
 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 6:49pm

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

Though that's not the claim. The claim is that the supernatural is real and that science can't evaluate it, which science can't. This would mean coming up with a means by which we can.


It's an interesting topic. I'm amused by the idea of people on an Internet forum solving a problem that modern science has yet to resolve, especially since users in WEPRE can't agree which way a slice of bread should be placed in the toast. But hey, you never know.

I personally believe one should place a slice of bread in a toaster vertically with one of the flat edges facing downwards.

Sorry for insulting everyone.
 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 7:58pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

2,145 posts

Science does not need to resolve problems. That is not its purpose. Besides, it depends entirely on the model of toaster you're using.

 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 8:15pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,798 posts

Knight

Well, science is the application of logic to observations, so if we've established that the claims can't be evaluated scientifically, it suggests that the supposed means of evaluation are unscientific and therefore illogical and/or not based on any real observations. While this may be enough for some highly credulous individuals, it is rather unsatisfying for a skeptic.


You make an interesting point on the application of logic here. Without a means of evaluation it does leave supernatural claims to not be illogical.

It's an interesting topic. I'm amused by the idea of people on an Internet forum solving a problem that modern science has yet to resolve, especially since users in WEPRE can't agree which way a slice of bread should be placed in the toast. But hey, you never know.


I was hoping to get the take from those who do believe in supernatural things. I mean if someone believes it exists wouldn't it be reasonable to do so with some grounds of being able to reasonably evaluate it?

I ask here because I've seen this group come up with some rather interesting ideas and takes on such matters.

The idea for the topic came about from someone pointing out an argument some use to berate science along the lines of "Science can't evaluate the supernatural." and pointing out that not even a bad proposal by which the supernatural can be evaluated is made. As such I though it would be interesting to ask just that.

Finally, the sliced bread is clearly best done horizontally in a toaster oven. Unless you want to be a manly man in which case you want to use a military grade flame thrower.
 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 8:35pm

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

The idea for the topic came about from someone pointing out an argument some use to berate science along the lines of "Science can't evaluate the supernatural." and pointing out that not even a bad proposal by which the supernatural can be evaluated is made. As such I though it would be interesting to ask just that.


It only takes one ignorant person to start a fire war, regardless of whose side they are on. I'm a Christian (aka, a deist, which means I believe in the supernatural), and deists often end up with a bad rap as being illogical and arrogant thanks to a few people that do a terrible job of representing us. I once saw a very interesting article called "Seven things Christians and Atheists have to agree on." To my surprise, it was correct.

It's on Cracked and, although the text is way too small, it's worth a read. I suggest reading through this before debating too heavily. It'll keep everyone a lot more mature.
 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 10:41pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,798 posts

Knight

It only takes one ignorant person to start a fire war, regardless of whose side they are on. I'm a Christian (aka, a deist, which means I believe in the supernatural), and deists often end up with a bad rap as being illogical and arrogant thanks to a few people that do a terrible job of representing us. I once saw a very interesting article called "Seven things Christians and Atheists have to agree on." To my surprise, it was correct.


Okay then I suppose I should ask how you solve this issue for yourself? I mean you're believing that it does exist but since we current;y have no means to evaluate any supernatural claim it doesn't seem you really can say that X was because of this supernatural force.

As for the link I could take it over to the Atheist vs. Theist thread for review. Though not sure when I will get to it given today might have been my one free day this week. I'm trying to keep this a bit more general than just focusing on theistic claims of the supernatural.
 

Posted Jan 20, '14 at 11:03pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

2,145 posts

I once saw a very interesting article called "Seven things Christians and Atheists have to agree on." To my surprise, it was correct.


Apparently it's been upgraded to 10 (which would be 11 things in all, if you count the claim within the title). Having looked through it, I can confidently say that we may agree on all of two things.
 

Posted Jan 21, '14 at 12:15am

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

That article is garbage, no offense to you. All it really says is that extremists on opposite sides of a fence are obnoxious and not representative of the whole. That's not really news. You could take the same article, plug in 'Republicans and Democrats' or 'Vegans and Carnivores'.

 

Posted Jan 21, '14 at 7:02am

MacII

MacII

1,369 posts

Ahem. A reminder to all that Cracked.com is a humorous site; the offspring of Mad magazine in fact, I believe.

 

Posted Jan 21, '14 at 1:19pm

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

You could take the same article, plug in 'Republicans and Democrats' or 'Vegans and Carnivores'.


That's kind of the point. Like I said, I suggest reading it so people will be more mature, as in how they treat other people in the discussion. Arguments in WEPRE can get disturbingly bitter and even crude. They're just basic argument guidelines.
 
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